Installing a desktop computer in a T@G

WilliamA

I started the process of (finally!) Getting some proper computing power in my T@G. It's been high on the list for far too long now. I have a bunch of stuff proportedly showing up today in the mail. My cellular antenna, Salltrex psw 150 watt inverter, special wire bits and new voltage tester should be here today. I made the dedicated wiring harness for the inverter yesterday and that's ready to go in. I made up all of my wiring labels and got those put on as well. I will be posting detailed info on each step with photos.
My new/old (used) computer is at the Mac store having all of the internals upgraded to my specs and should be ready soon. Last I heard, they were waiting for the 500 gig SSD hard drive to come in. Should be done within a couple of days, but it's Apple so fashionably late is the order of business. I have plenty to do in the meantime. The weather is supposed to break today and get warm in a serious way so I'll be able to do more than stare out the frosted-over windows at my trailer.

Let er' buck....

WilliamA

WilliamA

Lots of work today. Here are a few photos:
Here are the wiring harnesses ready to go in. The big one is the dedicated line from battery to the inverter. It's 10 gauge. The cheesy short "extension cord with box" is simply to have a 110v outlet where it's accessible without having to dig into the inverter. The red 2 wire harness is to go from the inverter input (12v) line, to the switch on the dash and back so I can kill power to the inverter.

Here's the cellular antenna that plugs into my cellular modem. It's a magnetic mount.

To mount my magnetic mount antenna on the aluminum roof, I used 3M trim tape and taped a zinc coated body washer to the roof. The antenna just sticks to the magnet.

It's working. Works fine and everything is up and running save the bluetooth mouse and keyboard. I'll poke at it tomorrow. I know the keyboard battery was dead so it's on the charger. The mouse, I haven't figured out yet.

Here's the mess all stuck in place. The only thing I have yet to secure is the computer. I am going to make a nylon web-strap with velcro to put it up on the wall there. It'll have to be pretty big so I need to source some wide nylon strap. I'm working on it. For now, the computer is sitting on a roll of black rubber tape to keep it up off the superdrive DVD writer/player. That is stuck to the shelf with 3M tape. It's working nicely. My son watched an episode of "Life on Earth" while I was cleaning up.

Here's the inverter mounted into the space behind the cabinet. As you can see, my cutting technique could use some work. Actually, I have no tool that can make a clean cut back in there so it's hack away with a folding handsaw for the rough cut, then clean up the edge with a file. I'll clean that up and then put some edging on it. There will be a plywood door there sooner or later. The inverter is in the airflow for the fan so I've no worries about closing it up. No need to access it directly for most things. I'll put a hinge on the hatch too.

Here's the inverter hard-shutoff switch in and hooked up. Seems to work fine. The inverter is pretty tiny by RV standards (150 watt) so it draws very little power. I've got it on a 15 amp fuse.

Here's the cheesy extension cord in its new home. The inverter has two 110v outlets so I plugged the computer into one and this outlet into the other. It'll be nice for running a razor or whatever.

Lots more cleanup, detail and testing but it seems to be working very well. Even back up in the hollow where we don't get cel signal, I am getting a good enough signal with the cellular modem and antenna to run my browser. I don't have enough back in here to watch youtube, but there's plenty for emailing, surfing etc. I'm quite surprised about that as I don't have enough signal on my cel phone to do anything back there. Once I get things all tidied up, I'll drag it out where there's real signal and give it a good thrashing. First I need to secure the computer properly. The SSD drive is pretty amazing. It's incredibly fast to load (on the order of a MacBook Air) and takes little power. With everything up and running, I was showing 17-30 watts of power draw on my plug-in power meter. Seems to work. Now it's just everything else......

I'll be posting and picking this all apart one area at a time so I can talk about it in more detail, but that's the Readers' Digest version for now....

More to come

WilliamA

WilliamA

I really don't have much of a social life. I get together in the morning with a few of the local rif-raf down at the Cenex station but that's the sum total of my external social interaction. So far as the internet is concerned, I tend to view the social platforms (facebook, etc) the same as I would an auditorium full of barking dogs. Lots of noise, not much useful information.
What I AM is a sight dog. Like a dog digging a hole obsessively in the backyard, when I get onto a problem, I just can't stop digging until I've found a good solution. This whole "RV-internet-television-movie-photo downloads-email writing" thing is one of those that I've been pursuing for a long time. That hole is pretty deep now and I have a grocery sack full of hotspots, cables, modems, phone adapters, cords, even a laptop (which I hate and refuse to use) to show for my efforts to date. So after all of this time, I've come back around full circle to the very answer I knew 2 years ago must be the only real, functional solution to the "problem". A thorough examination of the problem is first in order:
Here's a scenario to make an example:
You're driving down a lonely country road and happen upon a flying saucer sitting in a field. Opportunity strikes and you jump out for a bit of filming. The aliens have the hood up and are using the alien version of a hammer and screwdriver to pry off their version of a fan belt. They are doing the alien version of cursing and swearing as they bash the alien version of fingers in the process. You've captured it all on film.
Before they finish and take off, you want to do a quick review of the film and make sure that you got all of the audio (of aliens cursing), had the lens cap off etc. You quickly download the file into your computer and check it. Good to go, now to email the file off to NASA. Boom. Done. Boom.
Or:
Perhaps a more likely scenario is that you are at Glen Canyon Dam and you snap 30 or 40 photos and take off. You realize later when you download the images that you had your super-nice lens set from "auto-focus" to "manual" and all the photos are blurry.
One of these scenarios is a bit more likely than the other, but the effect is the same. The difference is that you "could" drive back to Glen Canyon Dam and get more photos. The other scenario is a bit more unlikely and it may take more time to re-capture the moment. One of the scenarios has actually happened to me. You be the judge of which....

How to manage a managerie of tasks for entertainment, planning, logistics etc, without spending all of your trip-time in the process? My personal needs for all of that will of course, be different than yours. The technical aspects however, are pretty much the same. For myself, I want to be able to manage my trip emails, contacts, route planning and so forth on a device. It's easy and fast. I can keep a file of my fuel and expenses for later on my phone. I can also do emails and a few other things on that device, assuming I have enough signal. But I also want to be able to download my cameras SD card, maybe watch a film or do a bit of research into the best off-grid spot to camp around Hovenweep National Monument. Speaking only for myself, my eyesight is too poor to be able to spend a great deal of time squinting at my phone. I also have a difficult time poking away at the tiny keyboard when writing emails. Then there's the writing. I'm, among other things, an obsessive writer. I keep a journal, write poetry and essays and obsessively long forum posts. I can't do that on either my phone or my tablet. Then there's the "poor signal" thing to deal with:

When I found out that one could purchase a "hotspot" I thought my problems were solved! Well, no. They are terrible devices that add more problems than they solve. They have batteries that need charging, need to be put up in a tree or cactus to get above the interference from cars and trailers etc and also require the grocery sack full of cabling and adapters to hook up. Some have Wi-Fi capability it's true, but that comes with an additional layer of trouble. I have tested many devices but so far, the best I've found is the USB modem shown above. It's fast, requires no software (but does need it's own cellular plan) and simply plugs into whatever device you happen to have. I've not found any device that I plugged it into that hasn't worked. Plus, it also has an external antenna port which I strongly believe is the holy grail of wireless, cellular communication. An antenna can pull in a signal where your phone won't find one. It's the difference between communicating or not communicating.
Laptops (ugh)
I had a laptop (still do. It's in a box in the closet) and am more convinced that they are for some, a good all-round multi-tool but for me, have all the same problems as a celphone PLUS all the problems of trying to "cast" signal into something larger for viewing, like my T@G's onboard TV. Back to the grocery sack of cables, adapters, chargers, etc. They are heavy and are power hogs in their own right. Not so much a solution, but rather, more of the same problems. If you hook your laptop up to your Jensen TV, then you have two screens on unless you can run the laptop with the lid closed ala Apple, in which case, you'll need a remote keyboard and mouse anyway to run it. In addition, you'll most likely need to go through the whole process of waking it up to set up the network each time you use it. I've been there too.

That's about the "meat" of my internal argument with the tech. After grinding away on all of that for more than two years, I've come full-circle to the brilliant, relatively inexpensive, relatively simple solution: Put a desktop computer, running through a small, dedicated inverter, using a cellular modem, into my T@G. Once done, it's hidden away, needs no cabling nonsense, uses no power when not on, gets cel signal as good as can be had with any signal available and does the multitude of photo management chores all in one, hidden unit.

More to come on the individual components and the research I've done on each.....

WilliamA

(Edited for photo size.)

WilliamA

The computer:
I chose a Mac Mini because it was small, could be fitted with an SSD drive, which I find to be a must for any computer that goes afield, and it used less power. I chose THIS Mac Mini because I could get it for under $200 bucks with a warranty and it came with a keyboard and mouse. I don't need a lot of computing power to do what I do. I did look at a number of Windows based computers and there are a few, but getting one with the SSD and other output ports I wanted was ranging up in price. Since I wasn't sure how well it would all work, I took the low road of this used Mac. In point of fact, most any box would do. It's a matter of where to put it and how much you are willing to spend on it. This one also had HDMI on the board so it was a no-brainer to hook up to the Jensen. Literally plug and play. I needed to do nothing more than turn them both on.

The modem:
As I've said too many times now, the key to making it all work starts and ends with the modem. If you can't get a reasonable signal, then the best system is for nothing. I have a pretty large account on this one. It's the "limited-unlimited" plan. That means I have unlimited data up to 30 gigs after which it gets throttled back to slower download speed. That may be an issue for those who want to watch TV at high resolution but for me, it's not a thing. I don't watch many downloads. I do watch youtube a good bit, but the screen resolution is pretty manageable. My plan, not counting the cost of the modem, is in the neighborhood of $20 bucks a month as an add-on to my phone. A stand-alone plan of course costs more. I am a big Verizon fan and would not change for anything. In the event that I could get my celphone for free elsewhere, I'd still pick Verizon for my modem as the coverage and signal are as good as it gets. (I don't get kickback from Verizon, but that doesn't mean I would turn it down...)

The Inverter:
I have a Salltrex 150 watt PSW (pure sign wave) Inverter. I gave $110 plus shipping to get it. I don't have a lot of experience with inverters but while stopping short of an endorsement of this one, can say that if I ever need another, it'll be the same one. The unit is well made, adaptable, seems solid and has enormous power connection lugs on the back for the 12V hookup. That's important. It also comes with an incredible owners manual. The thing is 56 pages, bound and reads like a book. It's incredibly detailed and covers literally every aspect of using an inverter. It covers batteries, wiring, mounting and has a huge section on theory, which I have learned a great deal from reading. It's hugely technical so that's to say a bit dry, but might be the best literature I've ever gotten with any product.

Here's the setup all in and tidy with the new bracket securing the computer to the wall. Nice and solid.

A closeup of the necessary rat-nest. The multicolor cable is the HDMI cable that goes out to the Jensen. I did add the non-powered USB hub, not because I needed more ports but because I wanted to mount the cellular modem tight to the wall. The USB hub is just stuck to the side of the cabinet with 3M tape. You can see the antenna pigtail that comes out of the bottom of the modem here.

At the bottom right side you might be able to spot a couple of USB cables, one of which has a thumb drive in it. Those are from my Android radio and used to plug in photo drives, music drives, etc. They aren't part of the Mac system. I just put the pigtails there so they are handy for swapping music and photos etc.
WilliamA

(Edited for photo size.)

CampHub

@WilliamA I like those samplex pure sine wave inverters so don't get me wrong. I had a mac mini that the power supply died in. I Thought about converting it to 12v these guys put up some info on how to do just that. In their video they claim not over 2.5 amps of draw and idling between 500 and 700miliamps pretty thrifty. We are using a cellular enabled ipad with an hdmi dongle to force feed the Jensen but am thinking about what your up to

Rick67

For plunge cutting in tight spots.

WilliamA

Lots of interesting developments today. I was able to get the bluetooth up and running. Not a problem. I really like (am used to) the Mac keyboard and mouse. Also....no cords! Nice!
I took the trailer out for a drive to make sure all the hardware would stay secure where I put it. It does. I made a quick test when I was in town and with a lot of cel signal, it's pretty quick. Download speed for movies, youtube and browser pages rivals my home internet.
I was able to coax the Jensen TV to pass the audio signal into my Android head unit I replaced the radio with. Now when I get audio out of the computer it goes directly to my T@G speakers. No more tinny Jensen TV sound. It was interesting to get that going as I had thought the problems were in setting up the Android head unit when it was actually the settings in the Jensen TV. It seems that you can select audio out of the TV speakers or out the Audio out jacks, but not both. Once I figured that out it was easy peasy. Now it's saved and when I turn the computer on, all I have to do is select the appropriate input on the Seicane Android unit and it pipes things across quite nicely. That's a relief as the Jensen TV sound is akin to a couple of juice cans hanging off the cabinet.
I ran the computer for a couple of hours today while I downloaded some software and set up the email accounts etc and it worked....well....like a Mac desktop. I sat back and did my business while sipping a nice glass of wine. Much better than any other system I've set up in there. I'm a happy camper....literally....

More to come
WilliamA

WilliamA

@CampHub said:
@WilliamA I like those samplex pure sine wave inverters so don't get me wrong. I had a mac mini that the power supply died in. I Thought about converting it to 12v these guys put up some info on how to do just that. In their video they claim not over 2.5 amps of draw and idling between 500 and 700miliamps pretty thrifty. We are using a cellular enabled ipad with an hdmi dongle to force feed the Jensen but am thinking about what your up to

CampHub,
I'm diggin the 12V conversion! I'll be looking into that in much more detail but it seems a great option. Looks to be quite do-able with minimum carnage. Hmmmm...
As far as cellular modems (dongles) goes, I can't find a single thing to complain about with the one I have. Try an external antenna. You'll be amazed at the difference.

@Rick67 said:
For plunge cutting in tight spots.

Rick,
I actually looked at one of those the other day in Fleet Farm. Tempting, but I am still on my tool-12 step program. I refuse to buy anything that I can't fit in my Jeep. That limits me to pretty much what I have now. It also forces me to be much more creative with what I have. You'd be surprised at what a person can do with a few tools when the need arises. I did clean up the ragged cut and fashioned a nice aluminum edge piece for that wound. It's much better now....

WilliamA

I started downloading my photo files yesterday from the house computer (big-mac) to put on little--mac in the trailer. I picked up a 64 gig zip drive for the job. It took big-mac 6 hours to fill the 64 gigs (8,000 photos). That's half of my travel photos. 8,000 more to go. Wonder how long it will take to upload the first half into little-mac. We'll find out today.

That'll give little-mac something to chew on... Maybe I should have ethernetted it across...

WilliamA

BBsGarage

Ground control to WilliamA................................

WilliamA

@BBsGarage said:
Ground control to WilliamA................................

True, true....Every word true.....
WilliamA

GigHarborTom

William A... Gotta say I am impressed. Thankful that I can follow your text. Like I used to say to my guys, I can follow you and understand you, trust ya, but cannot repeat an hour later. Ten years ago, approaching 70, take care of each other, I am retiring.
T

WilliamA

I got out over the weekend to do a quick overnight and thrash the new trailer upgrades. I found a state park that had a few campsites open for winter camping. Although the sites were "unmaintained", I even got one with electricity! Bathrooms were closed but pit toilets were available.

The snow was deep and I had to negotiate a snowplow bank 2 feet high to get in. Snow was like broken concrete. I was a bit concerned about backing in as the snowbank was much above the level of my trailer bumper but I angled it in and over one wheel at a time. The weather cooperated and the temps in the afternoon snuck up past freezing. There was lots of day-traffic (skiers, dog walkers, hikers etc) but the campground was mine for the night. The night sky was glorious and I sat out watching the moon and stars sillouetted by flocks of snow geese working their way north. When it comes to weather forecasts, I just watch the geese. When the snow geese come through, I know that winter is giving up. This week, it's going to be warming up, the maple sap will be running and things will again be right in my weather-world.

-Spring Thaw-

March.

The ground, frozen hard

And white

as the shell of an egg.

The sun beats back a blanket of snow.

It relents.

A patch of

Bare

Frozen

Earth

I see.

And from it,

A blade of

Green grass.

Oh,

That I had

such tenacity....

WilliamA

WilliamA

Once I had the computer in and running, it became obvious that the Jensen TV was going to be the Achilles heel of the whole platform. I headed to Best Buy to see what I could find. After wasting time looking at monitors that met my requirements,

(=<7 lbs, HDMI input, <30 watts, wall-mountable, bottom-facing controls, 16/9 format, 720-1080 dpi Max, etc)

I wandered over to the TV department. I found a 28" LG TV that seemed to be what I wanted. The guy said "15 day return. No questions asked". Perfect....Almost. The specs were a bit high on wattage at "up to" 50 watts. Nothing ventured....

I got to the campground and put it in. I was afraid it would be enormous and not fit, but while it's much wider than the Jensen, it's barely taller. It fit perfectly fine. At 720 dpi I was also afraid it would be a bit "soft" on resolution. I wanted lower resolution because power requirements go up with dpi. I wanted to stay below 33 watts running as that is the calculated threshold for equivalent power to the Jensen. I ran it first through shore power while I set it up and then switched the plug over to the inverter, running through a watt meter. Turns out, it takes about 20 watts to run. Lowest was 17 watts and highest was 23. That's still less than the Jensen even when adding the 5% loss with the inverter.

I sat back and let it run all evening with computer and monitor running through the inverter, so essentially running the whole system off of 12 volts. Picture is crisp and nice, much better than the Jensen, and there was nary a peep of discord from any of the hardware all weekend. I surfed, emailed, watched 2 cheesy sci-fi movies on YouTube and worked on loading in more of my photo collection. It's clear that the aged processor struggles with 64 gigs of photos but for what I want to do, it'll be perfect.

What's left to do is real-time testing of current draw from the system on battery only. To do that, I will need a much more sophisticated meter and will soon have to suck it up and put one in.

WilliamA

CampHub

The idea of using a mac mini as a media center has been something in the back of my mind for a long time. @WilliamA kicked me into gear to get it done! I have just completed the 12v conversion on my previously dead 2012 mac mini. I like to use the Anderson power plugs as all my ham equipment is configured with them. A word of caution things are tiny!! Good light and a steady hand is required to do the mod. Double checked the power supply after I removed it and sure enough dead. This could have gone very bad very quickly we are in the DC world now, polarity matters to these micro electronics. One mistake poof off to the recycle bin.

I had previously installed an HDMI switch along with audio cables out of the television back into the side of Jensen stereo to get audio without using the Bluetooth interface, we select rear auxiliary for television audio.

The resolution is fine for watching a movie for us. Just like WilliamA said above it would drive me nuts as a computer monitor. I love my 5k monitor but not feasible for the kind of camping we do. I now have the mac mini downloading movies and music that can be played offline. I also will be getting a mount and a wireless keyboard with a touchpad built in

Current draw according to the battery monitor is about 2 amps with surges up to 4 amps now and then. Pretty happy to check this one off the list.

WilliamA

Camphub,

Soooo many questions. Do you have an SSD installed? That would reduce power requirements and eliminate any moving parts from the storage side. What's the coax thingy? What are you using as a modem? Is your mini a dual core or quad core processor? Curious about the difference in power between them.

I'm pleased that your power draw seems to be similar to my own experience. What's the power draw of the Jensen? I'm curious if the random power spikes are the Mac or the Jensen.

Glad you were able to get the conversion done without unnecessary smoke! I know what you mean about d.c. and electronics. Check twice, solder once.....

I am just going to have to suck it up and get a bmv 712......

WilliamA

WilliamA

Also.... I was running my audio back through the T@G radio but the new monitor has great sound so I am now on internal monitor speakers. Reduces another device and it's power needs.

WilliamA

CampHub

@WilliamA I did more testing and mounted the mini. Mini does not have a SSD still a spinning 2TB disk, quad core i7 processor with 16GB of ram. . Using a cellular iPad to make the hotspot, we have a Wilson cellular booster in the Jeep. The coax thingy is a over the air tv signal booster that plugs into the usb plug on the tv... helps a little.
I thought the stereo sounded bad but the Jensen tv speakers are worse! The price we pay to keep it all 12v.
Power draws:
Jensen Stereo: .6 amps
Jensen TV: .73 amps
Mac Mini: This is the up and down load for sure! Between 1 and 4 amps
All 3 on and playing a movie is between 2.5 to 3.5 amps. According to the BMV-172 it will play for about 16hrs on the 100 ah LiFePO4.
Using the "Remote" app to control the mini.

WilliamA

I'm not sure about the difference in power draw between ssd and platten drive but it might account for the rather large idle-hi power draw of your computer? Might be a thing. Also, your quad-core might be more of a power hog than my tiny (by processing power) dual core. The Jensen speakers are dreadful bordering on embarrassing. Shouldn't be any reason for that, even at the shallow (cheap) end of the electronic pool. I'm loving the mount you found and have one on the way....

Now to investigate that "remote" app.....

Your setup is nice! Your cookie is in the mail! Lol.
Like Spinal Taps guitar:
"This one goes to eleven! It's one louder, isn't it!" Lololol

Keep us updated...data is good!
WilliamA

WilliamA

Oh yeah....One more thing; Thanks for using zip ties. Keeps it down here on my level!
WilliamA

WilliamA

Thanks to the link from Camphub, I got my Macmini mount today. Thanks for the link on that one! Got it for $9.99 plus shipping. I'll install it tomorrow. It's been snowing here off and on today but looks to be above freezing tomorrow. My son and I are planning a day trip mid-week for some biking and maybe an overnight if we can find a campsite. I might get bold and fill the fresh water tank this coming week. Relentless optimism......
WilliamA

WilliamA

I ventured out today for a bit of putzing. Think I'm all putzed with the couch for awhile. I got my computer mounted and made a filler panel for the cabinet. Still need to make a shelf and a grill for the vent hole but it looks much better.

I got my new television power wire rerouted and it's running off the inverter full time. Things are looking quite a bit more civilized in there. I let the system run off the battery for an hour. Seems to be quite happy in there.

WilliamA

WilliamA

I've been transferring photos from "Big Mac" in the house to "Little Mac" in the trailer. Or rather, I've been learning how much I don't know about transferring photos. I do batch transfers all the time from device to device, but as I'm becoming painfully aware, doing bulk transfers is quite different. I am learning a lot, but have a way to go.
In any case, the tip of this particular spear is how delighted I've been with how well it's all working this far. I found (by accident) a setting on the new Tele that turns it on automatically when it senses hdmi input. Not sure I could find it "again", but I know it's there.
My Victron monitor confirms my initial experiments on power use with the inverter, tv and computer. I'll do a proper test soon, but it looks like the whole system takes less power (12V) than the original Jensen TV/Radio combination I replaced. That's mostly the result of not needing to use the radio for sound. The TV has much better sound output than the stock T@G speakers so there's just no need to run the sound out to the radio. Amperage draw for the system varies wildly from idle to crunching string theory, but it's nominally pulling between 20-30 watts for all three: inverter, computer and monitor. Things that make it go up are: increased speaker volume, heavy computing (i.e. moving several hundred photos around) and having several window open in a browser. That last is, of course, because of the rather high number of ad animations in websites. My Wrangler forum is a big hog for that.
In any case, the system is working better than I could have imagined ( and I have a VIVID imagination!)

I'll do some proper energy use tests and post some better numbers as I get to it.
WilliamA

rich67

William, I was wanting to do a TV upgrade to a larger (and better) TV, and just happened upon this post. I'm curious as to which mounting bracket you are using. Can you provide some details? Got some down time before my next trip and would like to surprise the wife with a new setup.

WilliamA

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electronics/television-mounts/tv-mounts/barkan-full-motion-tv-wall-mount-for-curved-flat-13-43-screens/tv24ms/p-1470660580547.htm

This is the one I used. It seems to be robust and adaptable. It's a bit of scratching to work out the exact position but that's just the result of its many options.

WilliamA