Tinfoil Dexter Axle

Driver912

Somehow, as I am told, I bent the driver's side spindle on my 2017 Tag Max XL How you bend this big piece of honking metal on a flea weight trailer, I will never know. But I am being quoted $1000+ as a repair as I am required to replace the whole axle (both sides).

In 2014, Dexter introduced the "Spindle Replaceable" Torflex axle.

Hooray!!

But somehow my trailer, built in 2016, did not have this new feature. Go figure! I guess maybe the FACTORY (all hail, the FACTORY!!) saved a few $ by buying all of the obsolete axles Dexter had and then planting them on us. Or at least me.

In retrospect, I guess the only reason Dexter would make this kind of change was because they knew their original axle design could not hold up. And they don't, in my experience. But that apparently did not stop NuCamp.

Two reasons for posting this. Has anyone else had this problem? Misery loves company.

Two is a warning, if you have these obsolete, fragile axles (which do not have a big stainless steel bolt through the joint), then it is a special order and it takes 3 - 4 weeks to ship. Please understand, I am not saying the new design is any better (and I suspect it is not) but you can at least get parts off the shelf.

Why 3 - 4 weeks for parts for the original axle? Don't ask me! I guess because they have to bring someone out of retirement who remembers how these pieces of crap were supposed to work. Again 3- 4 weeks to ship, not to install, but to ship. That is a long time if you are far from home and the wife is really bored.

This whole thing has made me sadly realize my next trailer cannot be a NuCamp. I have a 1983 Pacific Seacraft sailboat and I spend less time and money on maintaining it then this little scrap of a trailer (which I admit I love). But enough is enough! I hear the Australians are building some really cool trailers that last and are meant for people who seriously, ( I mean they actually, really go outside the city limits!!!) use them. That would be refreshing. Make your own decision.

I realize that I am going to get a lot of rebuttals. That's OK. I enjoy intelligent discussion, But if you don't have at least 40,000 miles on your NuCamp whatever, please don't reply. That would be embarrassing. This is an adult discussion. But deep down inside, you all really know that we have been sold the NuCamp " sizzle" and not the "steak".

WilliamA

I have said many times here that I thought the 1 1/16" spindle is too small for such a large trailer so you are not the only one who believes that. While the Dexter is a one-piece design, I believe it's a good unit for a smaller trailer. It's the same axle that came on the much smaller Little Guy trailers and when I owned one of those, I suspected the axle was only adequate for that. All is not lost though. Dexter makes a larger axle (3500 lb) with much larger spindles that will fit the T@G. I have spent a lot of time researching the subject and mulling over the risks/rewards of traveling on my sketchy axle. For my money, I'd never replace my trailers' (2017 T@G XL Boondock) axle without upgrading it and would already have done so we're it not for the fact that I've not yet found a unit with larger diameter spindles that won't also require an (expensive) upgrade to 10 inch brakes. If I do decide to upgrade, I will certainly go to a Timbren long-travel system with 10 brakes. The Dexter 2200 axle may be acceptable (just) for highway use on a lightly loaded T@G, but those tiny spindles keep me up at night. Mine also does not have the replaceable spindles.

I, for one, understand your frustration about this problem. I'm actually surprised my axle has lasted as long as it has. E-Trailer has Timbren kits that are suitable for the T@G with more travel and bigger spindles for about the same money as the much less robust 2200 lb Dexter unit.

FYI, I have read that Timbren will put together their 3500 lb axle with lighter, 2200 lb springs if you request it.

WilliamA

CampHub

I would love to do the Timbren 3500 with 2200 lb springs!

Driver912

I was already to pull the trigger on a like replacement. But based on your advice, I will go for the upgrade. Thanks for your help and understanding of my frustration. I hope others are listening. If you don't think this is a real problem, then be careful not to drive over any dead squirrels on the road.

WilliamA

I've just been doing some rough calculations for installation of a Timbren axle kit. I just stuck a tape measure in there and my swag looks like what's needed for the T@G is about 8" "minimum" from the frame to the hub face. The Timbren axle I am looking at is listed on the Timbren website as a "1 tonne capacity". So far, I think the basic specs look right but I need to do much more research before I can post a part# for a specific kit. This axle has an advertised 3 3/8" of suspension travel, so nearly double the Dexter axle. The downside is the need to run 10" electric brakes. I'm going out on a limb here but strongly suspect a call to Timbren or E-Trailer could get a full kit with axle assemblies, backing plate assemblies and hub/drums. I am going to do some more measurements tomorrow and make some calls. I'll see what I can find out. For my needs, doing the assemblies could solve a number of problems I have. First is the twinky axle, next is the lift kit spacers and also eliminating the need (on my trailer) to use wheel spacers unless I just wanted to. I don't and would love to get rid of them. I could also get some narrower tires, but the Westlake CR857 (235/75/15) mud terrain tires that came on my trailer are amazing and I really like them. At the rate they are wearing I'll need to replace them from age long before they wear out. I won't run a set of tires for over 4 years for any reason and this set is getting close to that.

I'll do the Timbren calculations tomorrow and post my thoughts.

But now.... It's Gin & Tonic hour.....

WilliamA

TomD

Mmm..Gin and Tonic.

CampHub

@WilliamA I would look at the option of using the same tires you have on the jeep. Just one spare sounds good to me.

WilliamA

https://teardrop-trailers.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/7774#Comment_7774

That's on the list too. I did all the measurements yesterday along with sourcing the components and just need to write up the how-to. Need to do a couple of drawings as well. Surprisingly, the wheel/tire combo I'm running on the Jeep comes close to a fit. I'd need to check the backspace and move the fenders up about an inch.

WilliamA

WilliamA

I got to the detail analysis yesterday and worked up the in's and out's of putting a Timbren kit under a T@G. I first jacked up my trailer and pulled one wheel so I could get some good measurements. As it works out, the Timbren folks offer a kit that fits the bill nicely.

*********This particular set of Part Numbers
*********ONLY applies
*********to the "Boondock/Outback" T@G!*********

There may be another P/N that works for the non-Outback/Boondock but I haven't done those numbers yet. If there's interest, I'll do the research based upon the fitment to a (street) T@G.

Here's what I found:
First, the T@G has about 8 inches of space between the outside of the frame (not the body) and the hub face. That's measured off of my own trailer.
Second, for a T@G Boondock/Outback with a pitched axle AND the Dexter #9 lift kit, the total distance from the frame bottom to the centerline of the (unloaded) axle is about 6". I have the Dexter #9 lift kit on my trailer so I went off of that. That puts the frame 2 3/4" higher than the axle centerline.

I looked at the Timbren website and pored over the PDF for their rubber suspension axles in the 2,000-3,500 lb categories and found several interesting things. It seems, all Timbren products are not the same. As it turns out, the total suspension travel is pretty mediocre for most of the kits. The only ones that fit the bill and had the right specs are listed on the Timbren website as their "1 tonne" kits. These, for some reason unknown to me, offer the most wheel travel at 3 3/8". That doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind that it's at or more than double the usable wheel travel of the Dexter Torflex unit.

Here are the part numbers for the whole kit, ordered from E-trailer:

Axle kit:
(Note: This kit has 3,500 lb spindles as evidenced by the bearing size. The lower rating of the kit is probably due to the design of the axles, not the weight rating of the spindles.)
ASR1THDS01* (spindle-only kit. Both sides) $690.03
https://www.etrailer.com/s.aspx?qry=ASR1THDS01
Dexter Electric Brake Kit w/parking brakes (both sides):
K23-086-087-00 $274.86
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/Dexter-Axle/K23-086-087-00.html

Trailer Hub and Drum Assembly-3,500 lb Axles. 5x4 1/2"
AKHD-545-35-K (2 each) $150.84
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hubs-and-Drums/etrailer/AKHD-545-35-K.html

So the total for all the parts needed is:
$1,145.73

The axle kit is their long-travel offroad kit. From what I've read, the springs (actually square rubber bushings) are available from Timbren in a number of different spring rates. I am opting for the standard rate for now and will see how they work. I'd rather it be too stiff than too soft. The dexter axle is incredibly stiff as it sits so I doubt the Timbren spring rate will be higher than what I have now. In any event, it's a relatively (compared to replacing the entire axle assembly) easy process to swap the Timbren springs out for lighter ones.

The Dexter electric brake kit I have spec'd is complete and also has, for my own application, parking brake hardware installed. Should anyone not want the parking brake option, the kit available from Etrailer without parking brakes is about half as much. On the upside, the 10x2 1/4" drum electric brakes is the most ubiquitous of all electric brake assemblies so parts are easily available just about anywhere. The 10" brakes are about 5 times more powerful than the small 7" jobs so there will be some resetting of brake controller sensitivity, but on the upside, they should last just about forever compared to the narrow, hardworking 7" brakes.

I chose the hub and drum assemblies with the standard 5x4 1/2" stud pattern. There are many other patterns available on this size drums and I considered doing the same 5x5 bolt pattern I have on my Jeep, but that would require me to also get wheels and tires. I'm going to run the O.E. tires and wheels until I need some new ones. In any event, should I desire to go with the Jeep wheels, I can get offset spacers to go from 4 1/2" to 5" bolt pattern.

As to the installation, that'll require a bit more work. On the bright side, I've worked out how it can be done without the need for welding for those of you without one. I am doing some rather detailed drawings of how I think it should be accomplished and won't try and explain it here without the drawings. It's actually pretty straightforward and won't be too bad. The frame of the T@G is pretty sketchy without any crossmembers so that will need to be addressed, but it's not difficult. I'll put together the drawings and post them in a day or so....

*NOTE!!! The number I originally posted (ending in 02) is NOT the axle kit I ended up using. After further design work, I decided on the part # kit shown with the last 2 digits being "01". The difference is in the distance between the frame face and hub face.

WilliamA

WilliamA

After much rumination, I decided to order the Timbren axle kit. It's on the way. In the meantime, I'll get going on the necessary mounting brackets to install everything. My debit card has a daily limit so I needed to order the works in two orders one day apart. I'll order the drums and brake assemblies tomorrow. I also need to source a few bits locally to adapt my parking brake setup to the new drums. The parking brakes on the 10" drums are a little different and will require a different hookup. I'll cover that in the installation thread. I'll start a new thread for the installation with a link to this one so everyone who wants can keep up.
Time to "walk the walk"...
I'll keep you informed.
Also.....
Something to think about:
Anyone interested in putting a T@G pitched axle and lift kit with full brakes in their T@G....I will soon have one available. FYI, it's for a 6' wide (XL) trailer. Installation available if you bring me your trailer. PM me if interested. Onsite camping is available. I'd take trades for the non-pitched axle. I have a use for one...
WilliamA

GigHarborTom

Gentlemen, you are scaring the hell out of me. Last winter I sold our loved 61 Avion. Having dumped over 30K in restorations. One was new axle,hubs etc. Installed too dang short,shifting, an incident on the freeway causing burning tire, additional road service and shop repair that cost close to another thou. Added spacers. Insurance covered most of the road service part.
Last week evidently that deer remains on the freeway, larger than a squirrel, I might add, caused blood etc all over the front curb side quarter of the T@G. Traveled a couple hundred mile more w/o issues. I hope this dang thing is of quality I had hoped when wifey decided over my desire to purchase.

WilliamA

Ease down Tom,

Some of us use our trailers on "The road less travelled". For normal use, the stock axle is undoubtedly just fine. Big tires, wheel spacers and the like are not the norm.

WilliamA

WilliamA

A couple of quick drawings.....

WilliamA

CampHub

Looks like your adding 2" to the outboard side of the frame? I noticed the same thing when I was measuring things up and wished the frame went all the way to the outside of the cabin. I am looking forward to more on this. Thanks for the write up!

WilliamA

Indeed I am. There were 2 kits that would work with 1 being 2 1/2" wider than the other. Rather than trying to stiffen up the inside of the frame, I thought it makes the most sense to add some meat to the outside closer to the wheel. Calculations show it will work well, be much stiffer and solve more problems. I'll keep you posted.
WilliamA

WilliamA

Here is a photo of some of the layout work.

On the tape, you'll see a forward and rear vertical dotted line. That's the length of the frame doubler. At 4" tall X 2" wide with an 1/8" (11 gauge) wall thickness, it will sit nicely in next to the O.E. frame. It "may" require a tiny bit of trimming of the lower body trim strip but if so, a utility knife should do that job. There's about 2 1/4" of exposed body (including the trim strip) outside of the frame rail.
Installation will first require removal of the stock axle mount which is welded to the frame. I'll use an angle grinder for that, slicing through the welds (carefully!) With a cutoff wheel, then cleaning up the frame with said angle grinder and flap disk. Once that's achieved, I'll put the frame doubler up against the frame and clamp it on. Then it's a matter of setting the timbren axle up on that, measuring the axle centerline and marking some holes for drilling.
A note on axle centerline:
This is Timbren's "long arm kit". As it's a pitched axle, I want to measure the unloaded axle centerline and the radius of the axle swing. The reason is because if the length of the swingarm is approx 14" inches and the pitch angle is 20 degrees, moving up and down in an arc, as the axle pivots up, it will also move back. I'll determine the exact axle arc, then halve that to determine exactly where I want the axle position. If my drawing board measurements and calculus are correct (I believe they are) then the axle will have around 3/16 of movement for and aft through it's full travel. I will divide that by 2 and move the axle position so that at full droop/compression, it will travel through the center of the fender opening. That should put the axle pretty much in the center at loaded rest.
Side load:
I haven't really talked about that but to me, it's the most critical part of the installation. Since the T@G frame has NO lateral stiffeners, that's a problem. There are basically.2 options. Either weld in some lateral frame members or use the Timbren method of installing a cross beam between the individual axle assemblies. I'm NOT going to unbolt and lift the tub up off the frame for welding so that leaves the second option of using a crossbar. Timbren specs the crossbar minimum size at 2" X 2" with a whopping 1/4" minimum wall thickness. That's going to be one heavy honkin' slab of steel. My instincts tell me that's overkill, but for this one, the dude will abide and follow Timbren recommendations for wall strength. I'll cut it to length with my angle grinder and cutoff wheel but if you plan to do it with a hacksaw, you're going to need to bring a lunch. I have worked out a method for tucking the crossbar up into the frame, but that would require welding and I'm trying to make this a do it yourselfers as much as possible. I have a welder and might tuck the crossbar. I might not. My trailer is plenty high and I don't really feel it's necessary. If I don't tuck the crossbar, it'll still be 2 3/4" higher than the stock axle. But I know myself pretty well and if I don't, I'll regret it. I may add another crossbar further toward the rear of the axle pad but that will depend upon how happy I am with the way it sits. In the event I decide to do that, I have one drawn up.
More later. My axle assemblies are scheduled to arrive tomorrow so I'd better get to ripping everything out and making some pieces...
WilliamA

Michigan_Mike

I understand your frustration and am guessing there is a lot more to your story. I have been down that road myself, but it was a bad bearing that ruined the spindle and I was 2K mikes from home. A friend and I drove 120 miles south to Phoenix, dropped off the old axle and loaded up the new axle and installed it.

I have owned 5 of these trailers now and have never bent an axle. I’ve traveled coast to coast and up to Alaska and back, hit some serious potholes and without issues. You had to have hit something hard and although you put it on nuCamp you have to shoulder some of the blame here too. Obviously a heavier axle will provide a better outcome but I have seen people place generators, gas cans, tool boxes and other items on these trailers, along with hundreds of pounds of gear inside and in the galley and bikes on the rear, etc. My point here is that there are a lot of dynamic forces that are added into the equation, Ive seen frames crack, tongues fail or show signs of metal fatigue, galleys showing structural damage, etc. Not to rub salt into anyone’s wounds here but this isn’t nuCamp’s fault, it is the trailer owners fault. 👍🏻

I believe Dexter builds a good axle and they also provide great service and their web site has a lot of helpful information there as well. Many of the earlier axles were built by ALKO and Dexter bought up that company a while back.

Once again, I understand your angst and frustration but there are thousands of these trailers out there and you can’t blame nuCamp. I do know about the replaceable axle splines and they too have been around for a while, but are more intended for replacement of damaged splines after bearings seize up and splines are damaged beyond repair.

It sounds like you have found an axle but would also recommend contacting ETrailer, nuCamp, Dexter, etc. in the future or contacting/emailing a forum moderator or admin in the event of an emergency as we have contacts and have helped others in the past. But with this viral pandemic and the issues it has created I’m sure this has not helped with your dilemma.

GigHarborTom

William.. Thanks for the reassurance. Sure would have been nice to have had a couple of you guys on my teams years ago. I had great people but always looking for more of your expertise.
Thanks for being here
Tom

WilliamA

Well I have huge progress to report and many photos but it's too late to do a big post. I'll be doing a complete thread on this so that information will have to wait.

Today I blasted off to my metal emporium for some bits, then to pick up grade 8 hardware and back. I pulled the axle and cut the axle mounts off, then Cut up all of the basic components to make the mounts. I have the left side frame doubler mostly done and it's bolted in for fitting. According to UPS, the axle assemblies will be here tomorrow. I'll be able to fit the one side up and assuming all is right, will make up the right side.

Here's a sneak peek at the left side frame doubler. I'll pull it back off tomorrow and drill 3 more holes, spray on some primer and slam it back in. Once I'm sure it's right (it is) I'll finish the right side.

I'm working off the engineering drawings on the Timbren website so if they are right, it'll all fit fine. My hubs and brake assemblies are a day behind so UPS says Friday.

I'll keep you up to speed...

WilliamA

WilliamA

One of the problems with using the outboard frame doublers is when they are thru-bolted and torqued, there isn't anything to keep from collapsing the square tubing. I resolved to fix that. For the 3 holes that go through the Timbren, the doubler and O.E. frame, I drilled 1/2" holes. I then redrilled just the outside hole to 7/8". I inserted a piece of 7/8" tubing into the outer hole, marked it for length and cut it. I cut it short by 1/16" so it would be recessed inside the square tube of the doubler, then welded it in. I ground off the extra weld and now have crush sleeves in all of the critical mount holes. Take a look:

In this photo, you can see the tubing cut to length and dropped into the hole.

Here's what it looks like in the end.

Ready for welding.

Welded and ground down smooth.

It's nice and secure now and will transfer 100 foot pounds of bolt torque without a whimper....

WilliamA

TomD

That old axle looks like it’s 50 years old. Is that because of road salting or was it never painted? My. SS is a 2015 model and covered many road miles in all kinds of weather but doesn’t look anything like that.

GigHarborTom

Beautiful thoughtful craftsmanship.

WilliamA

https://teardrop-trailers.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/7810#Comment_7810

50,000 miles on that thing. And that's just "on" the road. Salt is a big factor here. My penchant for Robert Frost doesn't help things....

WilliamA

WilliamA

Mounts are mounted....

Bottom foot plate. It'll get welded to the doubler as soon as I check the alignment...

WilliamA

WilliamA

In process...

Right side...

Crossbar

Plenty yet to do. I'll need to set the camber and toe, then about a hundred other details. Hubs and brake assemblies arrive tomorrow. It's looking like I might be able to do a road test this weekend. Still need to sort out the parking brake cable attachment but of course I can't until the backing plates are on.

This thing is unbelievably stout. It's clear that it cannot be installed on a T@G without the crossbar. Once everything is in and adjusted and tested, I may weld the crossbar (recommended by Timbren) into the mounts It's clear that would eliminate any chance of camber issues. I have no problem running it with the bar bolted in for now...

More to come...

WilliamA

WilliamA

Went down the road for a short test. More photos coming...

WilliamA

WilliamA

After my short, 8 mile test-drive on Friday I took the night off. Saturday started off nice and sunny so I got to work with a few details. I had quite a list.

First was hooking up the brakes. I made up a new cross-harness for the passenger side brake and fender running light. I stuck that to the backside of the new axle cross-tube with electrical tape. I thought about drilling the cross-tube and running the wiring inside, but there's little benefit that I can see to that. I just taped it on for the near term and will probably get some stick-on wire loom when I get to it. The long control arms provide a bit of a challenge for running the brake wires. I picked up some plastic split loom and ran the wires through that, then taped them to the inside edge of the control arm. I need to pick up a few wire loom clamps of a larger size than I currently have, then will drill the control arm and poprivet them on. On my trailer, the passenger side fender clearance light ran across the axle so I made up a new harness for that as well.

When I installed the axle, I seriously misjudged the loaded axle height. To be fair, Timbren gives comprehensive information in PDF form on their website to include a spring rate loading graph (nice!!!) Along with information on axle minimum/maximum deflection data, but there's no way to work out the loaded ride-height in the data. When I put the wheels on and lowered the trailer, the axle deflected over half of its travel or about 2 1/4". I had not anticipated the total ride height deflection, so as a result, when the axle was loaded, it moved the wheels to their maximum rearward position inside the fender well. While that wasn't a problem, my OCD didn't like the way it looked, so I moved the fenders back an inch... I had taken the fenders off to do the installation so it was an easy affair to just re-drill and move them. Once moved, I used new stainless screws (larger size at #12 screws) and put 3M trim tape on the edge of the fenders where they contact the body. I have a bit of bodywork now to fill the holes but that's an easy affair now that the weather is warm. I picked up a small batch of fiberglass resin and some Bondo. I'll chamfer the holes, repair them with fiberglass resin, then lightly sand and fill any imperfections with a whiff of Bondo, then paint to match. For me, any job that I can do while sitting on a bucket is a good days' work.

While it doesn't look like it in this photo, there is still 4" of clearance between the top of the tire and fender at ride height.

New 10" brakes.

The fender height is still the same. I thought about moving them up as well, but they still are high enough to clear the tire at maximum deflection. While I was doing that, I moved the fender light wires so they run around the edge of the fender instead of going right down the center of the fender opening.

So most of the grub-work is done. I took it out for a 20 mile pull-around to get the new brakes "cooked in" and wear all the oil and preservative off. I chose a road I normally don't take my trailer on as it's awful, full of frost heaves and broken pavement and generally what we describe as: "a bit rough". It's also crooked as a tank trail and very hilly.

I'll avoid the television-level superlatives here, but suffice to say, the difference is like a completely new trailer. I can't really relate it. Where the old axle caused me to grit my teeth and grip the wheel in anticipation of the jarring, bouncing hitch-rattling fight, there is just.......nothing.... The trailer, back there in the mirror, just floats along with hardly any movement. It's astounding to me the complete difference in ride and handling. It's truly a game changer...

More later...

WilliamA

WilliamA

Camber and toe....

Ah yes... The backyard alignment.

I checked both once the hubs were on and found the factory camber to be about right at a couple degrees ( there is some camber designed into the spindles), or, the top of the tire is further out than the bottom. There are a couple of reasons you want this:

First, Camber is usually measured on a trailer with the wheels off the ground. It's the only way to measure without flubbing up the numbers by weird tires, offset rims and other factors. Once you sit the trailer down on the tires, there's always a bit of deflection as the axle "loads" to take the weight.

Second, most suspension systems are designed so the camber changes as the suspension compresses for reasons I'll not go into here. Trailers, not so much, so the first rule applies.

There is also bearing loading to be considered. On a steering axle, where a line drawn through the bearing line of thrust needs to approximately match at the contact patch of a line drawn through the pivot points of the steering knuckle (ball joints in most cases). But we don't need a lesson in Ackerman steering geometry. It's a trailer....Just give it a little camber and a bit of positive toe and it'll follow you anywhere.

To check camber, I levelled the trailer side to side with a level on the rear crossmember. Then I took a bullet level and laid it on the brake hub face. The bubble pointed toward the trailer and was even side to side so that's good.

Next, I took a tape measure and measured first between the inside lip of the installed wheels. I then measured the same point across on the back of the wheels (don't measure the tire face unless you first check the tires for lateral run-out) and compared the two. The front needs to be a bit 1/16"-1/8" narrower than the back or it'll waddle down the road like a duck. I got that all set and am happy with my initial numbers. I'll also closely monitor for odd tire wear for a thousand miles or so. In the event the camber needed tweaking, Timbren supplied some camber shims. For toe, it's a matter of loosening some bolts and adjusting the spindle.

My numbers were very close out of the chute so that tells me that the mounting system is square and true. Good to know.

WilliamA

TomD

I get distracted looking at some of these pictures. My problem . But why does your electrical and water area look like the driver door of OJ Simpson’s Bronco. Are you channeling blood, sweat, and tears?

WilliamA

https://teardrop-trailers.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/7826#Comment_7826

Vinyl wrap....

WilliamA

CampHub

Great job @WilliamA !!!!! I now have this mod on my list with your drive review. I hit a pothole this weekend that upset the trailer to the point of bouncing off the ground side to side then the death wobble and white knuckles on the steering wheel all in the span of 5 seconds while everything settled out.