EMS, portable, built in....

csonni

I must say, after spending $25,000 on our 2020 T@G XL Boondock Lite, it is disappointing to realize that we need to install a $400 EMS system just to protect our camper. Why wouldn't NuCamp include this in such an expensive setup? With that, I understand the pros and cons of portable vs built in. We would prefer to tie it into the system but are wondering if there are any good instructions. Some say to pay an electrician to do it. On the T@G, where is the best location for installation? We'd probably go with the Progressive Industries EMS-PT30X RV Surge Protector.

ras

Please define EMS for me. Surge protection on your shore power? or protection from EMR if you're exposed to an atomic bomb? I'm a retired electronic technician and I have no idea what you're talking about.

ras

If you're talking about shore power surge protection, there are $50 solutions

https://www.amazon.com/Analyzer-Integrated-Protection，30-Trailer，-Indicator/dp/B0894KV395/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=30+amp+surge+protector+for+rv&qid=1605745341&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFQVzhDV0RXQk9QSlImZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA2NjE1NzQxS1NTUEhQUjhDM0JOJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2OTQxNDcyVTlZTk5NSlVBVFY5JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Sharon_is_SAM

@csonni - if you want the hard wired EMS you want the EMS-HW30X. Not sure where is best to locate it on the TaG, but there are multiple owners on the TaB forum who have installed this themselves. If you predominantly Boondock, just get a portable unit and use a cable lock to secure it to the pedestal.

csonni

@ras said:
Please define EMS for me. Surge protection on your shore power? or protection from EMR if you're exposed to an atomic bomb? I'm a retired electronic technician and I have no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe some things have changed since you've retired. Here you go.
https://campaddict.com/best-rv-surge-protector/

csonni

Here's the install for the T@B. Any T@G owners that have installed this?
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/4815/progressive-industries-ems-hw30c-install

csonni

I'm now wondering if any warranty is voided on my brand new T@G by installing the EMS-HW30C

LovelandPaul

I just installed the Progressive EMS-HW30C in our new 2021 T@G XL. Here are the basic steps I used:

1. Unplug shore power & disconnect battery.
2. Remove the electrical panel to access the shore power feed (orange 10-2 AWG wire). You could cut the existing wire and splice the EMS unit in, but there was not much wire to work with. I Purchased an additional length of 10-2 wire at Lowes to give me some more flexibility.
3. Wiring in the EMS unit is pretty straight forward, follow the instructions which come with the unit carefully to get everything wired correctly. Disconnect the shore feed wire from the T@G main electrical panel and rewire into the input of the EMS unit per instructions.
4. Connect one end of the new wire into the output of the EMS Unit per instructions and the other end gets rewired into the T@G main electrical panel. (TIP - Cut and strip the new wire to match the original wire which was removed so you can route the new wire the same as the old. There is VERY little space to route the wires inside the electrical panel)
5. Space is very limited in the area between the interior wall and the kitchen wall and it is nearly impossible to fasten the unit to the wall. I just tucked mine below the electrical panel.

There are probably other options for mounting the EMS-HW30C box, but I was trying to minimize impact to storage space. One option could be to mount it under the sink in the kitchen and route the shore power under the sink. You could also mount it in the cabinet above the electrical panel or you you could possibly mount it under the trailer on the frame (I believe the box is weather tight).

Hope this helps

Paul

beaky

bought our XL 2 years ago, have never done a damn thing to it, works great

csonni

Thanks for that great info.

csonni

@beaky said:
bought our XL 2 years ago, have never done a damn thing to it, works great

2 years isn't much to go on. It'll be that one time where you wish you had.

royh210

Im undecided. Its between the EMS-HW30C and the Surge Guard 35530. Anyone have experience with the two.

WilliamA

Curious....

I'll be the first one to admit I have a serious obsession with tech. I like adding things and then tinkering with the additions.

I don't have an EMP/EMS/lightning /surge protector. I've no plans to add one either. Perhaps I'll read up on it someday and see what all the running and screaming is about.

I don't have one on my house either. Seems to me that if one was actually needed, it would be MORE important on the house, what with the electrical grid being just one grid and not separated into "house" grids and "RV" grids. It's true that there's the possibility my trailer might someday be struck by lightning. In that case, I doubt an arc of electricity that just travelled 40,000 feet would be foiled by the 1/8 inch gap of a surge suppressor.

There's another story here, underneath the issue, about solutions that roam the world looking for a problem to solve.

But that's for another day......

WilliamA

csonni

@WilliamA said:
I don't have one on my house either. Seems to me that if one was actually needed, it would be MORE important on the house, what with the electrical grid being just one grid and not separated into "house" grids and "RV" grids. It's true that there's the possibility my trailer might someday be struck by lightning. In that case, I doubt an arc of electricity that just travelled 40,000 feet would be foiled by the 1/8 inch gap of a surge suppressor.

I agree with your logic. Actually, after all we've spent on our setup so far, I think we're going to pass on the protection for now.

WilliamA

I don't want to be on the "hook" for advice, bad or otherwise. I try hard to avoid that. I post my experience and try to flavor that with a good dose of the pragmatic.

This forum and others spend a lot of time talking about the "best"........(fill in the blank, batteries, security, solar, generator etc) and that's a useful and necessary part of the process we all go through. Often though, less time is spent on the necessity of a thing or upgrade. It ALWAYS comes back to what you're doing, where you live, how important etc a thing is to YOU. I could make the argument (a thoroughly stupid gesture) that my own trailer is perhaps the most highly modified trailer on the forum. But that would be pointless for most folks. The way I USE my trailer is quite different than anyone else and thus, I've spent my time and money to that end. If you don't go off-road, you'd get zero gain from the things I've done.

In the end, it's a slow, sometimes maddening, process of use, modify, use, break something, modify and on and on. What works for me might not be something that works for others. I don't worry about security much past locking the doors (occasionally) and slapping on a cheapo tongue lock. You might live somewhere that needs more attention to security. That's for you to decide. As far as surge suppressors etc are concerned, I see it as a non-problem. That doesn't mean I couldn't some day have a problem. It just means that as relating to risk vs reward, the data don't indicate that I need to throw money at it. That's my personal "bar". If something happens that changes my mind, I'll deal with it then. I don't have an air conditioner or microwave or any appliance that would be particularly sensitive to over/under voltage, so my needs are necessarily different.

It's easy to get drawn down the rathole of tech for its own sake and not actually think about what it does, how you got along before and IF you've ever been in a situation where it actually saved anything important.

Your results may vary......

WilliamA

Sharon_is_SAM

@csonni - just be aware that where you plug in to shorepower may not be maintained or upgraded. Low voltage is frequently an issue encountered in crowded campgrounds when everyone is using their air conditioner.

WilliamA

I'm wondering if anyone else has picked through this conversation and found the underlying irony...

To be sure, Sharon is spot on. In the event of under-voltage in campgrounds, your device will protect your hardware. How? It will shut it off. The primary issue here, as Sharon also said, is air conditioners. If your trailer does HAVE an A/C or microwave (both sensitive to under-voltage), then by all means, a device such as an EMS or similar will protect you. Pretty much everything else in a T@G is tolerant to or simply ignores momentary under-voltage. The same is true of over-voltage. Momentary ups and downs in voltage are common both in campgrounds and your home. You'd be quite surprised to find how wide a voltage range your home has on a regular basis. Don't take my word for it. Get a cheap device and have a look during peak times.

If your RV a/c is running and experiences under-voltage, the amperage goes up according to Ohms law: E=IxR. The problem is not low voltage in this case, it's excessively high amperage. That's hard on equipment, but especially hard on electrical connections. Over time, that can get sketchy.

Back to the irony I mentioned:

If you are in a crowded campground and your device senses under-voltage, it will shut off. If the a/c was RUNNING when it kicked off, you'll need to wait between 5-15 minutes before you can restart it (check your a/c manual for specifics) so the pump pressure can equalize to avoid damage to the unit. If your protection device is an auto-on type, it will reconnect within a few seconds when voltage stabilizes. If your a/c is on, it'll restart immediately without going through the requisite equalization time. That's MUCH harder on the unit than simply letting it chug through a momentary under-voltage event.

I know that I am often being the messenger of overly technical, boring information around here, but those are facts. They happen. You can't defeat the laws of electron flow.

So what to do? Well, be informed. Sharon is right. RV parks can and do have overcrowded electrical grids. Am I advocating that you don't protect your trailer with EMS or similar? Absolutely not. It's your investment. But be aware that such a device (particularly an auto-function type) will not protect your a/c unit. It isn't smart enough to monitor both under-voltage AND provide a compressor leak-down period. That's the part that is up to you.

In situations where the device is constantly tripping, the most common-sense thing to do is shut off the a/c.

Perhaps the problem isn't the voltage. Perhaps you're in the wrong RV park.

Protect your equipment by all means per your individual usage. But don't expect miracles from anything. The better you understand the toys, the longer they'll last...

WilliamA