Changing to Lithium Battery with standard 2018 T@G (Non Boondock)

JamesDow

I am looking into replacing my Group 24 wet battery with a 100Ah lithium Iron Phosphate Battery. My searching is showing the smallest battery physical size is about 11.4"L x 6.8"W x 7.4"H (Renogy). I was hoping for a drop into my existing battery box, but this and other 100Ah lithium batteries are too large. (Larger than Group 24) While I can get around the black welded frame bolted to the bottom of the tongue which holds the existing battery, I may have to slightly modify the plastic battery box with a top that will fit inside the white fiberglass front box.
I do not want to replace or relocate my front fiberglass box and do not want to locate the battery outside of the front box.

Lithium batteries I am considering:
FIRST CHOICE
-Renogy $799.99 11.4"L x 6.8"W x 7.4"H (May get the Renogy Monitoring Screen for $57.77 or Renogy BT-2 bluetooth Moduel $35.99 - need to double check batch version and low temperature charging cutoff)

OTHER CHOICES
-Battle Born $949 12.75"L x 6.88"W x 9"H (getting out of my price range but very well made)

-RUiXU $590 12.99"L x 6.89W x 8.66H (poor design/placement location of BMS)
-Mighty Max $600 12.99"L x 6.77W x 8.66H
-Ampere Time $570 13"L x 6.83W x 8.49H (may have low temp cutoff issue)
-Expert Power $740 13"L x 6.8W x 8.4H (not recommended due to BMS quality issues)

Any suggestions, recommendations or comments are very welcomed.

Renogy offer their Battery at there website for $899.99 and they have requested a screenshot from Amazon so they can match the Amazon price of $789.99 or $799.99 Per Amazon question response the ones via amazon are V2 (latest batch).
I am still double checking with Renogy to assure that they would offer the V2 batch.
I have seen a good YouTube review on Renogy.

My need for power comes from a planned 30+ day trip this summer from San Diego to upper Michigan.
I have a 100W Renogy solar suitcase and 900 watt Baja propane generator.
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. EXITING VIEW OF WETCELL BATTERY

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. TOO LARGE GROUP 27 BATTERY CASE

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ras

When I went to a type 31, I cut a couple of pieces of wood to fill the 24 slot and set the battery in its box on top of the wood. I had to use my Dremel skills on the jut out ends of the cover. Worked fine and I was able to use the existing strap. Went on 3000 mile trip with the battery strapped like that without a problem but I wasn't boon docking. Since then I've upgraded to a 48 inch Lund tool box. A lot of work but I wouldn't go back.

JamesDow

I also thought about the idea of using wood. It is the easiest solution. I have some extra PVC fencing, which I may also consider. The PVC is lighter, should last longer and should have most of the advantages of wood.
As far as finding a battery box to fit, I have almost given up with that. Cutting a Group 27 box with a Dremel or maybe doing some reshaping with a hot air gun should do the trick.
I am waiting on a response from Renogy that they will price match Amazon. I believe they will.
My final decision to go with Renogy is based on their design and the fact that they have direct communication to their Battery Management System (BMS).
I looked at many reviews and the YouTube ones by Will Prowse were extremely helpful.
Below is a link of one that finalized my decision.

YouTube: Renogy "Smart" 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery Tear Down
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aahHWaV6Zdk

I hope others that have or considered converted over to lithium will add their two cents worth.
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I think in the long run it will cutdown on 12 volt power worries.

JohnnyLoco

I’m going different routes, I just didn’t want to pay for a dedicated tongue mount lithium for my rig, didn’t want to worry about it getting stolen, concerned about its output exposed to cold weather, and didn’t wanna reconfigure the charging systems to get max charge.

I’m getting rid of my converter altogether. My AC outlets will be powered by shore power plug and my 12 volt will be wired into a heavy duty lighter plug, then plugged in to either my Delta1300 or a Jackery kept inside. I get to keep any heat the lithium systems produce.

I’m gonna attach a hitch receiver where the battery box was and use my modified bumper dumper and five gallon bucket.

JamesDow

Oh great, now I have to be paranoid over theft.
Good point!
Guess a cable around the battery box with a lock under the frame should do the trick to some degree. No one should know what type of battery is in the box, so the temptation is lowered.
Worse case scenario would be the deductible involved with insurance along with the pain in the neck it would cause.
I really like the idea of cutting down on my worries about adequate power when I boondock camp.
Moving up to a Group 27 AGM or Gel battery may also do the trick, but that is a may.
I am always worried about weight, so a weight savings of 20-30 pounds with a lithium battery is a plus.
Speaking of weight, I have decided to ditch the heavy and bulky 30 Amp cord and just go with two adapters and a 14 gauge extension cord. Save about 4 pounds and is also used while stored at home. (Photos Below)
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Maybe another stimulus check could come my way, or then again, maybe not.
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JohnnyLoco

I ditched my heavy cord and use the same adapters and good cord like you. When I remove the converter and rewire I’m actually going to a a whole new port plug. Something close to this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079M6BCW9/?coliid=I1ZBQD5UZC8ZO8&colid=VRT9UT8Q8KJN&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I also went to an ALPs propane generator and it powers the trailer just fine.

I have other trailers at my hunting camps in other states but I’ve adopted this high speed low drag teardrop thing and figured I’d make it as tech as possible and completely survivable if it all fails.

The plus is this stuff can be used for other things besides just the trailer.

I do put thought into anti theft, more than I should.

WayneW

I’ll toss out something for thought. One of the advantages of lithium is the ability to discharge safely to around 80% while still maintaining significantly more charge cycles than flooded lead acid which are only good for about 50% discharge w/o shortening battery life.

So doing the math, if you were able to get by w a 100 A-hr FLA battery (useful 50 A-hr), you should be able to get by with a 75 A-hr lithium (useful 60 a-hr), a 20% increase over the FLA battery. That opens the door for the use of a group 24 lithium battery, resulting in a fairly simple drop in replacement. And perhaps save some money along the way.

However, one of my concerns about lithium batteries is the need to keep the battery above freezing to charge them up. If you try to charge them below freezing you can damage that very expensive item, but if you need to use a battery heater to keep them to temp you end up using juice. If you don’t camp when it’s cold this isn’t an issue. But I tend to camp at high elevations and even in the summer nighttime temps drop below freezing. So maybe I need 100 A-hr to cover that ....

Sometimes too much thinking hurts.

JamesDow

The charging below freezing is a concern, but most of my solar charging would be during the day, so that might help. The working temp for Renogy is rated at -4F. I can not imagine camping much at that low temp.

As it stands I seldom do much super cold camping. The Renogy has a low temp cutoff to avoid damage when attemping to charge when too cold. That helps.

When cold camping I usually take my little buddy heater. I guess that could warm the battery area if really needed.

Thanks for your input.

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JamesDow

Renogy agreed to price match Amazon.
Ordered directly from Renogy the 12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery and monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series.
One hiccup was improper tax rate, which they were not able to adjust properly in their system, so they reduced the price of the monitor to account for the difference.
Good service and communications.
So far I have had good luck using my 100W Renogy solar suitcase and hope to expect the same with the battery and monitor.
Currently I intend to charge via the T@G when hooked up to 120V, using the Tow Vehicle (TV) when on the road and solar at camp.
The solar should be the only thing in the trio to charge the battery 100%. The T@G may come close, since the WFCO converter puts out 14.4 Vdc in the Bulk Mode charging mode.
The built in Battery Management System of the Renogy lithium battery should take care of voltage fluctuations from the TV alternator.
I will need to be aware and not leave the TV on idle while connected to the battery for long periods of time to avoid overheating my alternator. (Should be fine at higher RPM when the vehicle is moving)
This new addition should set me up well for an extended trip this summer.
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JamesDow

My new Lithium battery install is complete.
The process included the purchase and modification of a group 27 battery box.
Used a Dremel and cut off the handles from the box. Then cut slices out of each end of the wire access from the top (leaving the side access as is. I then used a hot air gun and bent down the access points and sealed them shut with a hot glue gun.
I adjusted the bottom metal frame of the T@G to fit the new battery box using two redwood 2x4 chunks of wood with a top platform using an old plastic cutting board.
Cutting board was screwed to the wood. The battery box sat on top of that secured by a bolt through everything and then with a battery box strap. Everything was then secured with a cable and lock.

I mounted the Renogy Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series using Velcro on top of the battery box using a clear waterproof Rectangular Plastic Food storage container.
The setup allows me to utilize all the functions of the screen without moving it from the plastic box. The clear plastic is flexible enough to all to push buttons through the top. The screen cycles through its screens automatically, so really all I need to do is turn it on and off.

The battery was received 68% charged. Using the T@G converter plugged to shore power it moved up to 85% charge capacity after about three hours. When camping, I will top it off with my solar panels as necessary. I also will hook it up to the tow vehicle when on the road and disconnect once stopped.

All said and done the total cost to the upgrade is:
Renogy 12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery $799.99 (Purchased direct from Renogy)
Renogy Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series $59.99 (Purchased direct from Renogy)
Group 27 Battery Box $12.99
Cable and Lock $11.17
Plastic Box for Monitoring Screen $6.00
Tax $68.99
Total $959.13

My next camping trip is mid March.
I will likely do a bit more testing before.

From what I have learned, running a charge cycle between 85% and 30% will increase the life of the battery. The jury is out if this will meet my need in general. Naturally there will be times I will desire more capacity so a higher charge rate would be necessary.
"Lithium Battery Longevity: Double or Quadruple the Life of Your Lithium Battery"
https://youtu.be/Yf9N9zBgyB8

While I still have my two year old wet cell, I will maintain that at home as a backup system (home/trailer).
I would guess I have likely tripled my usage potential by a matter of three or more with this upgrade and have moved to a solar system which should charge much quicker.

My real test will be this summer where I will be crossing the country to Michigan and back over a four to six week period.
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JamesDow

My new battery system has not been 100% field tested, but I did get some answers from Renogy and WFCO.

General Comment (Renogy): I want to assure that the WFCO-8725 Three Stage Smart Charging Converter will not damage the battery when hooked up to 120V shore power. The converter does not indicate it is not for lithium batteries. (lead acid and absorbent glass mat=Yes).
Answer Renogy: "In regard to the battery converter that you have, we suggest you contact the manufacturer of this unit as they will have a more accurate recommendation for this."

Question (Renogy): Should I assume that the Battery Management System (BMS) will protect the battery from any charging hazards noted above?
Answer (Renogy): "As for your questions; please know that the BMS will protect your battery only in cases of high or low temperature and over-charge or over-discharge situations. Also, as soon as the BMS detects that the battery is at 20% DOD, it will disconnect to protect the battery."

Question (Renogy): Will traveling for extended periods hooked to my tow vehicle cause any issues?
Answer (Renogy): "Additionally, there will be no problems or issues with the lithium batteries as long as it does not discharge below 20%."

Question (Renogy): Will my charging setup as above, hurt or alter the lifespan of my 100Ah Renogy battery?
Answer (Renogy): "Lastly, it will depend on how often you use the battery. Typically, lithium batteries have 1000-3000 charging cycles. As long as you do not over-discharge the battery as often, you will not have any issues with its lifespan."

Question (WFCO): Should I anticipate any issues charging a 100AH Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery with my Trailer Converter (WF-8725)?
Answer (WFCO Tech): You should not encounter any issues, but the max Scope Of Charge (SOC) should only be expected at around 80%.
Comment: My testing has shown I am getting a 84.1% SOC.

Note: I will be able to top off above the 84.1% SOC utilizing my Renogy 100 Watt 12 Volt Monocrystalline Foldable Solar Suitcase w/Voyager.

JamesDow

Update on charging my Renogy 100AH Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery.

Plugged my Renogy 100 Watt solar suitcase into the battery this morning.

8:00 AM - High clouds, no direct sun on panel. -- Battery Scope-Of-Charge = 93.9% (Output 13.6 Volts per Voyager solar controller)

10:00 AM - High Clouds, no direct sun on panel. -- Battery Scope-Of-Charge = 100.0% (Output 14.0 Volts per Voyager solar controller)

This is the first time I have got to 100% as confirmed by my Renogy Monitoring Screen connected directly to the battery management System (BMS) using RJ45 communication cable.

Under normal boondock camping charging in plus 90 degrees exterior temps, I have the norcold refrigerator on (31 degrees during the day) and are often charging up phones, and USB power blocks as necessary. These additional draws interfere with getting up to 100% in the field.

I am pleased with these results. I have high confidence that on my upcoming 40 day cross country trip, I will not run into power issues. I also added today a on/off switch to the charging line from my Tow Vehicle (TV) to the T@G. This will allow me control as to when I want to use the TV alternator to charge and it also can eliminate any draw from the T@G battery back into the TV battery.

JamesDow

Update:

I utilized my Renogy 100AH Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery on my five+ week summer cross country trip and it worked flawlessly. I was able to charge while on the road and when we were at campsites that provided electricity. I never had the need to pull out and use my Renogy solar suitcase, nor did I use my propane power generator.

I found that I could get a good four days of use (using NorCold cooler and lights, some Fantastic-Fan Vent) and still would have around 30% scope of charge left.

Since returning home (San Diego), I placed the battery in "shelf mode" using my Renogy Battery Monitor. When put into that mode (end of August), my Battery State-Of-Charge (SOC) was 92.5% - I check the SOC monthly and it has remained at 92.5% for over 60 days. The rate of self discharge with lithium is outstanding.

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Sharon_is_SAM

SOC = State of Charge😊. Is the Renogy Monitoring Screen a shunt? If so, have you run into any problems going between solar charging vs charging via the 7 pin? I ask because we often need to resend our Victron BMS.

JamesDow

Renogy monitor connects with an ethernet cable (like used in a computer) No shunt is involved. The monitor cycles between State of Charge, current usage in amps, voltage, capacity. One button for all choices. When battery in shelf mode, the monitor has no draw. BMS is built into the battery and has worked flawless.

I use the 20A Voyager solar controller display to monitor solar output.

Duckstomper

Thank you for documenting this so thoroughly - I plan on replacing my old battery next spring and was considering downsizing to a 5 lb propane while I'm at it, that should leave room for a 100ah lithium in a group 27 box if I go that route.

JamesDow

Duckstomper:

Downsizing propane from 20 lb. to 5 lb. was in my thoughts. The cost of the tank and bracket made me rethink. Next I thought about downsizing to 11 lb., which might not require a new bracket. After all said and done, I made no change. With the 20 lb., I can run the air conditioner with my 700/900 watt propane generator for up to 60 hours straight (if ever needed) - ( unlikely ).

F.Y.I. I just checked my state-of-charge and after nearly 3 months the battery has not lost charge (still holding at 92.5%).

Thanks for your kind words.

mgreen2

I just installed a Renogy lithium on my 2017 and it fit in the group 24 factory battery box with the cover. It also has a Bluetooth monitoring system that you can connect to your phone. This is the one I used. https://renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/

JamesDow

Nice to have the optional bluetooth ability to monitor your battery. I might question the fit in a group 24 battery box. I found no group 24 that would fit 11.4x 6.8 x 7.4 Renogy battery. You must be lucky. I would not complain one bit.

I remain very pleased with my battery.

Enjoy!

rich67

I ran my Norcold and my 100ah lithium battery for almost 5 days recently. Temps in Florida ranged from the 70's at night to the 80's during the day, camper in full sun, with the Norcold set to 39, and the 100 watt factory panel providing a charge. I left it in full sun pretty much every day. That's intermittently using the fan and also the lights. I was pretty happy with that. I plan on using the Jackery for some lights and charging duties while boondocking, and have a 2200 watt generator to help boost things when the sun is not cooperating, or if I am using too much fan.

SueBHunny

@mgreen2 said:
I just installed a Renogy lithium on my 2017 and it fit in the group 24 factory battery box with the cover. It also has a Bluetooth monitoring system that you can connect to your phone. This is the one I used. https://renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/

This is the battery I just ordered. Was it actually as easy as just swapping it out? I know I can just switch my Renogy solar panel to lithium and it will be good. But are there any funky wiring issues with the battery?

JamesDow

I found no issues when I changed to my 100Ah Renogy Smart Lithion Battery. No wire issues after the swap.

My onboard converter will charge up to 84% when plugged into shore power, but if plugged in with my refrigerator the charge will reach 96%+.

The difference is how the converter cycles between various converter operations modes (absorption [13.6V]/bulk [14.4V]).

The change was by far my best mod.

Duckstomper

@mgreen2 said:
I just installed a Renogy lithium on my 2017 and it fit in the group 24 factory battery box with the cover. It also has a Bluetooth monitoring system that you can connect to your phone. This is the one I used. https://renogy.com/12v-100ah-smart-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery/

Hey Mark - Did it fit neatly or did you have to cram it in there? I got mine IN, and got the lid to close, but it was TIGHT and I'm debating whether I should switch to something larger. @mgreen2