Front End Rebuild, Version 2.2

WilliamA

Hey all,
I've been angling toward being able to mount my generator on the front of my trailer and get it out of my TV for awhile now. I had done a bunch of work moving things around last fall but have been unsatisfied with the results as my gennie was still in the TV. I decided to pull everything apart and do what I had wanted all along.

Here's the generator where I've been wanting it. I cut the "tongue" portion off my aluminum rack and had it bolted in front of my aluminum box but it was a 1/2" too narrow as it was to fit my generator. I took it off today and cut out a half-moon so the rack slid forward a bit up and around the tongue jack to give me that little bit more. Now it fits well with no rubbing. I have bits and things to do to get it tied down and secure, plus I will need to make a waterproof cover out of awning fabric but it's nice and snug there. I ran it today for a bit and it's not bad there. It's certainly more handy for a quick battery charge or heat warm-up rather than drag it out of the TV and set it up. I'm really happy with it.

Here's the bug-a-boo that started the whole frenzy today. I had to trim off enough of the aluminum rack to move it forward 1/2".

Of course, I had to move my 5lb propane cylinder to make room as well as my 1 gallon gas can for the generator fuel. I made a bracket/cover for the propane tank by cutting up the stock Boondock front box and re-purposing all of the parts and deck-metal. It started out as a simple open box and sort of got out of control during the afternoon.

Here's the more or less finished box. I have some detail work to do and need to remount the propane regulator next to it but that can wait until tomorrow. I hadn't originally planned to make a lid so when I put the lid on, it's too close to the corner of the trailer to use hinges. I had decided not to use hinges but now I've changed my mind again. I'll use the stock front-box hinges and just move the propane box forward enough to accommodate the open hatch. I repurposed all of the original weatherstrip and a few of the inside pieces as well. I still need to cut the aluminum angle from the old box and use it to brace the inside of my front box but the hard stuff is done.

Here's the open box with propane tank inside. I have my tank clamp in the bottom of the box and will affix it to the base tomorrow.

I cut the flat off the original Boondock aluminum front rack and spent some quality time bending a lip up 90 degrees so I could rivet the side to it. The bottom piece runs under the toolbox and will bolt up through it. I'm repurposing all of the angle aluminum I can scavenge out of the old box to use as stiffener for the inside of everything.

I'm going to move it forward enough so I can mount the regulator behind the propane box and run the propane line up over the frame from it's current location and into the regulator from the back of the box. I have the locking hasps and hinges I took off the old box and will reuse those as well. I also have some steel L-brackets that I will bolt to the inside of the tool box and stiffen up the whole works in order to spread the load out better. More work tomorrow but I should be able to finish it up.

When I cut up the original front box lid, I did it in such a way as to preserve the mandated sticker. Just for the fun of it.

My propane box now keeps the door catch from holding the door all the way. I'll make a 1/4" spacer and put it between the catch and the door. Easy, peasy.

Details, details....

WilliamA

TomD

Really nice William! How much does your Generac weigh. I would love to to that.

WilliamA

Hey Tom,
My gennie weighs 44 lbs wet. I've over the winter removed more than that by canning the microwave and A/C unit. I got rid of the 46 lb (full) 20 pound cylinder in favor of the 5 lb job. The new propane box I made today weighs 2.4 lbs. I've also ordered a wheel adapter so I can use my TV spare on my trailer. That's another 60 lbs. I moved all of my tools out of the toolbox and put them under the bed back over the axle. Once the dust settles on all of this madness if I've done my math (and boy do I love to do math!) I will still end up with a net loss of 17 lbs over stock. With a full water tank, I should be right at 160 lbs of tongue weight even with the generator. My max allowable tongue weight per my own specs is 185. That gives me room to throw my chairs, widgets and a few other things in the front toolbox.

WilliamA

Michigan_Mike

Nice work William and thanks for sharing as you certainly didn't waste anything and made good use of your available materials. This is good stuff!

TomD

I’ve got a tool box with two 6v batteries and I kept the Marine Deep Cycle on the tounge of my SS. All the batteries are switched. I would get rid of the MarineDC and replace with a Honda 2000. Not sure the weight differences yet. I too load things in the SS over the axle to offset.

WilliamA

If I remember from my nauseating amount of generator research, all of the 2,000-2,200 inverter generators with a db rating less than an Airbus A330 weigh within a couple pounds of each other. My Generac is a bit noisier than the Honda or Yamaha units but cost hundreds less and has a few features I just wanted. The next step up Generac is (allegedly) quieter by 2db than the Honda. It's a bit larger physically than the Honda but has a fuel shutoff (which I wouldn't be without) like my low-end Generac and also has a digital power gauge, which mine doesn't have. The upside to mine is it has a larger engine and, in my mind, has much easier access to the moving bits. Mine has the "idle" switch that allows it to only use as many rpm's as the power I'm sucking out of it. I got mine for just under $500 bucks. It's pretty quiet. If I had money pouring out of my pockets everywhere I went, I'd have gotten the next step up Generac. I know the vast majority of folks run the Honda but I would have passed it over in favor of the Yamaha, which also has a fuel shutoff. Haven't figured that one out yet why Honda just didn't stick one on there.
Oh yeah, I also ditched my factory power cable in favor of a 12 gauge high quality 110V cable. Saved a few more pounds there. If I ever anticipate the need to run a portable sawmill or a remote power feed for a Rolling Stones concert at my campsite, I can always throw the stocker back in. Little stuff matters...

WilliamA

WilliamA

Thanks Mike,
I hate wasting anything and try to repurpose whatever I can. I was shopping online for a propane tank mount and they were all pretty much a piece of bent aluminum with a hose clamp so I just decided to save the $100 bucks and also make use of my junk stash.

LuckyJ

@WilliamA wow, this is really nice work!

TomD

William...did you ever look into mounting the Gennie in the rear of the trailer utililizing the receiver there? Has anybody done this and if so how did you like or hate the results?

LuckyJ

@TomD said:
William...did you ever look into mounting the Gennie in the rear of the trailer utililizing the receiver there? Has anybody done this and if so how did you like or hate the results?

No OEM rear receiver on a T@G trailer.

BBsGarage

Once again outstanding work and ingenuity.

About using a rear receiver, there are way too many horror stories about bike racks gone wrong using the the rear receiver, so I would guess a generator would be at just as much risk.

WilliamA

Hey all,
I'm on the road for a visit with my oldest son so the work is patiently waiting.
Tom,
Actually, I did spend a lot of time working on a plan to mount the gennie behind the axle, but on the right side right behind the fender. I did "the math" and determined it would do well there with the right kind of mount. I also wouldn't be bothered by drilling the frame for a platform mount as long as it was not between the axle and hitch. That part of the frame is sacred and in my world, not to be modified. I decided against that location because of carbon monoxide considerations. I wanted it as far from any opening as possible. I have no plans to run the generator while sleeping but in any case, just don't want it within range during occupancy. As LuckyJ said, there's no plug-in hitch on a Tag but I don't want it on the back because I'd have to move it to open the trunk. If I run my heater off the gennie, I'll set it off as far downwind as the cord will allow.

WilliamA

TomD

William..I sometimes forget which forum I’m on. The rear receiver threw some people who don’t have one. I’m just looking into convenient transport for the gennie. If I run it I have a 100 foot extension. Of course I would have to be alone😉

WilliamA

Tom,
I kmew what you were talking about. For my purposes, if I need to take my gennie off, no matter where it's sitting on the trailer that defeats the purpose. I just want to be able to get a quick charge or run my heater for half an hour before bed without lugging it out of the TV or off the rack mount. I have an atomic 5/16" cable 25 feet long for securing it when it's setting off the trailer but I want the option to run it in place if the situation warrants. I still need to make a security strap that allows some sort of quick release for maintenance. I have some ideas for that but haven't gotten that far yet. I want to incorporate some sort of lock/tie-down that takes advantage of the locking toolbox right next to it. If I make something that secures under the open toolbox lid I won't need yet another lock.
I did get my bag of bolts so I am busy this morning getting things tightened up and also making a propane tank clamp that's incorporated right into the new lid. Putz putz putz...
Plus, it's still cold.... Mike and Verna, don't come back yet! Just.....don't...

WilliamA

Verna

10.2” of new white stuff yesterday at home—I’m staying put and I’ll take the slow route home when I do leave!

Mike and Linda will stay a bit longer.

LuckyJ

@Verna said:
10.2” of new white stuff yesterday at home—I’m staying put and I’ll take the slow route home when I do leave!

Mike and Linda will stay a bit longer.

Lol, in our case, we did not get any of the new stuff, but my reserve from this winter here is still about 3 - 4 feet deep, and the snow bank from my snow contractor is about 12 high, 16 feet wide, 40 feet long. Lol

WilliamA

Well, spring has come and gone up here and the days are glorious! I've been out putzing like a pro of late. I wanted to discuss a few things that I have been keeping track of while moving the new stuff in and the old stuff out and how that has affected my trailer tongue weight. Let's get to it.

A few details I wanted to share. First, there's my gray water system. I spent the entire winter perfecting it, most of which was involved with getting my significant to switch from bag-style cat litter to the 2.5 gallon plastic-jug litter in the handy, sealable container, which I coveted. I could have just gone and bought a plastic jug of cat litter, dumped it out and kept the container but it's the principle of the thing.

The beauty of my ingenious gray water system is that this size jug travels comfortably nested in the sink. I wrap up the short hose and drop it in the sink under the jug and it's all good to go. I want to point out here that my dish drainer also flips upside down and rides well on top the burners where it can't wander around too much.

The next order of business was to put the corner strap on the magic, levitating drawer slide I'd built a month ago. It's a good fit and required little effort to install. That solves that.

A photo of my completed front-end setup post-maintenance on the generator. I did the spring maintenance with oil and fresh gas, then ran it for half an hour under load so I'm ready to go. I run it right where it sits here and it seems to work just fine. I have purchased the material to make a cover for it but my sewing is a slow and painful process. That could take most of a rainy day. I'll get to it. I really love the generator there and it gives me the option of either running it where it is or just lifting it off and putting it behind someone elses trailer so I don't have to listen to the noise. Just kidding. 90% of its use is charging the battery which it is happy to do at an idle. If I run the heater with it, I like to have it a bit further from the trailer.

I have been testing things as a matter of course and also reorganizing the galley to utilize the new storage space, I find that I really appreciate how things just work. Now that I have all the details worked out to my satisfaction, I wanted to revisit the tongue weight issue and see how it all shakes out. Here's the major changes and how they have effected tongue weight:

With everything loaded and stowed, I checked the tongue weight. It came in at a whopping 240 lbs. That's too much for me, so I moved some things around. I put the huge, stock electric cord (still can't find it within me to leave the thing at home) and my 25' steel cable (for securing the generator when it's off the trailer) in the underbed storage over the axle. That took 10 lbs off the tongue weight. I spent some time just getting rid of a lot of useless detritus that had collected in the front tool box and that pealed off another 10lbs. Down to 220 lbs. I filled the water tank as full as I could get it and that took off another 20 lbs of tongue weight. Now I'm down to 200 lbs. I cranked the spare tire down until it was on the ground and it turns out that has about 20 lbs of tongue load. If I move it behind the axle, that will have a net reduction of tongue weight of 40 lbs (20 lbs lost in front of the axle and 20 lbs added behind the axle. I had a close look at the mechanism for carrying the spare tire and it looks like a straightforward job to remove the crossmember/spare tire winch and put it back in behind the axle. The frame is the same width and all of the hardware is the same. It's just a matter of drilling the holes and moving it. Before I do that, I'll want to get some sort of crossmember to replace the one that holds the spare and put it back in the original spare carrier location. I'll fabricate something and bolt it back in the location ahead of the axle. I don't actually think it really needs something there but it does act as a spreader for the front section of the frame so I'll do my duty and be safe about it. As I've said before, I'm one of those few who actually likes and appreciates the spare tire under the trailer. It's out of the way, rides well, gives me peace of mind and under the trailer is the perfect place for it.

As to tongue weight, I'd like to have all the dust shake out and be at between 180-200. The height of the trailer (frontal effect of wind at 60 mph) and the added weight of things I carry make me feel a bit uncomfortable with too little tongue weight. I don't have any doubt that it would work fine as it is, but I want to be able to put various things in the front tool box and that means moving the spare to keep me happy. I should also note that I've also removed the rear stabilizing jacks as I never use them (they are too short to reach the ground without cribbing) and don't see the need for them in any case. They weigh 8-10 lbs each, so with the crank, that's probably 20 lbs or more I've removed from the trailer gross weight, all of it behind the axle.

So after removing all the stuff I've taken off, I should still net 60# lighter than stock. I'm happy with things the exactly as they are, but there is still room for zeroing in on improvement. Before I do anything else, I am taking it to have it weighed and get a real, loaded weight.

I'll keep you informed.

WilliamA

LuckyJ

@WilliamA
Cool idea about moving the spare behind the axle. In my mind, it is an even better location then in front. It will sit closer from the TD axle, with the ax'e lift you got, it will be better protected by the axle tube and will in a way give you better approch angle, and should not affect to much of the departure angle.

TomD

I have a gray water carboy that my wife and I use that has been perfect for our type of camping https://www.amazon.com/Tote-N-Stor-42106-Portable-Waste-Tank/dp/B07CBZ9N9S/ref=sr_1_48?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1525048214&sr=1-48 . The wife uses the LG sink like we’re at home. The carboy collects all the of days gray water off flow. It matches nicely with with the 7 gallon carboy I use to collect water. Almost one to one. BTW...don’t key on the $$$ for the carboy. I didn’t pay near that😎

WilliamA

I got around to making a cover for my generator. I used some nylon material from an EZ up awning that got wrecked last year in the wind at an art show. The generator is an odd shape so it took lots of pins and lots of trimming to get it right before I sewed it. I also put in a shock-cord at the bottom to keep it snug when traveling.

WilliamA

TomD

William..REPURPOSING has to be the most fun ever and you just showed why.

LuckyJ

@WilliamA said:
Hey all,
I've been angling toward being able to mount my generator on the front of my trailer and get it out of my TV for awhile now. I had done a bunch of work moving things around last fall but have been unsatisfied with the results as my gennie was still in the TV. I decided to pull everything apart and do what I had wanted all along.

Here's the generator where I've been wanting it. I cut the "tongue" portion off my aluminum rack and had it bolted in front of my aluminum box but it was a 1/2" too narrow as it was to fit my generator. I took it off today and cut out a half-moon so the rack slid forward a bit up and around the tongue jack to give me that little bit more. Now it fits well with no rubbing. I have bits and things to do to get it tied down and secure, plus I will need to make a waterproof cover out of awning fabric but it's nice and snug there. I ran it today for a bit and it's not bad there. It's certainly more handy for a quick battery charge or heat warm-up rather than drag it out of the TV and set it up. I'm really happy with it.

Here's the bug-a-boo that started the whole frenzy today. I had to trim off enough of the aluminum rack to move it forward 1/2".

Of course, I had to move my 5lb propane cylinder to make room as well as my 1 gallon gas can for the generator fuel. I made a bracket/cover for the propane tank by cutting up the stock Boondock front box and re-purposing all of the parts and deck-metal. It started out as a simple open box and sort of got out of control during the afternoon.

Here's the more or less finished box. I have some detail work to do and need to remount the propane regulator next to it but that can wait until tomorrow. I hadn't originally planned to make a lid so when I put the lid on, it's too close to the corner of the trailer to use hinges. I had decided not to use hinges but now I've changed my mind again. I'll use the stock front-box hinges and just move the propane box forward enough to accommodate the open hatch. I repurposed all of the original weatherstrip and a few of the inside pieces as well. I still need to cut the aluminum angle from the old box and use it to brace the inside of my front box but the hard stuff is done.

Here's the open box with propane tank inside. I have my tank clamp in the bottom of the box and will affix it to the base tomorrow.

I cut the flat off the original Boondock aluminum front rack and spent some quality time bending a lip up 90 degrees so I could rivet the side to it. The bottom piece runs under the toolbox and will bolt up through it. I'm repurposing all of the angle aluminum I can scavenge out of the old box to use as stiffener for the inside of everything.

I'm going to move it forward enough so I can mount the regulator behind the propane box and run the propane line up over the frame from it's current location and into the regulator from the back of the box. I have the locking hasps and hinges I took off the old box and will reuse those as well. I also have some steel L-brackets that I will bolt to the inside of the tool box and stiffen up the whole works in order to spread the load out better. More work tomorrow but I should be able to finish it up.

When I cut up the original front box lid, I did it in such a way as to preserve the mandated sticker. Just for the fun of it.

My propane box now keeps the door catch from holding the door all the way. I'll make a 1/4" spacer and put it between the catch and the door. Easy, peasy.

Details, details....

WilliamA

Hey @WilliamA, I am bringning this back up, as I am thinking of replacing and relocating my propane tank, but still want to keep my original checker plate front box and original Outback rack, but locking it.

So my plan and I want to know how you feel about it is to use my 5lbs propane bottle ( since we are still on our original 20 lbs fill from when we purchased our trailer in the spring of 2017.

The relocation option I am thinking about is either attached to the same frame bracket (modified of course) for the spare tire, or maybe make an other bracket for the oter side and maybe plan for a 2x 5lbs location. I would built a similar type of aluminium box that you made.

No mater what, I still think I would have enought tongue weight remaining.

Your tought on this possible location??

WilliamA

LuckyJ,
I really liked the location of my 5lbs bottle when it was on the back of my LG5W. I had it behind the right rear fender where the spare is on my T@G. I'd hesitate to put a propane bottle mount on the left side of the trailer simply because that's the most exposed location while traveling, but I suppose I'd eventually be okay with it there since the right side is already full of add-ons. I really thought hard about putting my propane bottle (5-11 lbs) on the rear of the left fender by adding a brace under the fender and bolting through the fender for strength, but ultimately ended up putting mine up front mostly because I had the material to make the box. Even the 5lb'er sits out quite a ways from the trailer side and by putting it on the side of the toolbox, I was able to move it in a few inches. Also, I abandoned any thought of putting my bottle on the left rear fender when I moved my license plate to that location. For you, that might still be an option. As to putting it on your spare tire mount, I'm thinking it might stick out too far from the body. I'd have to do some measuring but even tight to the body, it would stick out a few inches past the outside lip of the fender. You still have your stock front box so I'd consider putting the tank mount somewhere up on the right side toward the outside edge of the trailer. The bottle and gas (5 lb) weigh about 20 lbs full and I ultimately didn't see enough savings on tongue weight to justify spending a lot of time and money making a bracket to move it to the rear, although that's where I'd really have liked to put it. In the end, I decided to put the spare back there as it made a much bigger difference in tongue weight than moving the tank back there. Once you hang the spare back there, it doesn't leave much room between the spare and fender or rear of the trailer to hang a bottle. I also thought about moving too much weight to one side on the back, which would cause uneven suspension travel. I suppose that would be about evenly offset by having a full water tank, but that's a consideration. If I were you, I'd probably work on a plan to put it on or next to the left rear fender, even though it's not my favorite location. I think you could squeeze it in there ahead of all the various hatches for electric plugs and water fill spots. There's no way the spare would fit well on the left rear as it would cover up a lot of access points.

Your thoughts?

WilliamA

LuckyJ

Thank you for that detail comment, it make me double think my plans.

1st, when thinking about installing it using the same braket of the spare tire, I am think of adding an arm to the side of it, so it would not stick out, but be level plain with the spare tire. So it would be toward the front or toward the rear of the spare. So basically, it would not create much more drag. But I am also think about the fact that would put more weight on the right side of the trailer. And since I am planing air bag suspension with as of now only one line pressure for both bags, it could in dead be a major issue.

As for making an other bracket for the left side from the frame as for the spare, it would also not sitck out more than the fender and I also plan on making a box like you did, form locally source material. I do not weld aluminium, but like you, I could use screews or rivet and assemble everything around the support bracket.

I do not want to leave it in front, cause I plan on using the side shelves for our biolite base camp stove on one side, and 2 spare jerry can on the other.

As for weight transfert from the front to rear, I do not do this to move weight around, simply to free up some space in the front box and having the option to lock it up, since the propane thank would not be in it anymore.

I think that my HD tongue set-up would still give me enough weight to balance such a move.

As of now, temp and snow still make it hard to plan this up in detail (we got an extra foot last thursday and more than an other one coming sundy to monday). We got more than 17 feet now since the begining of winter and it is still coming.

Thank you again for your tought on this project of mine. Like I said, it help me double check and re-think those type of project.

Will keep you posted!

WilliamA

Luc,
I figured that you were saying you'd put the tank forward or aft of the spare and against the wall. It's surprising how quickly that space gets full! I'm with you on the importance of moving it regardless of additional tongue weight. My setup worked well because I have it so far off to the side that it's not a problem, but if I were using the front space for other things, it would quickly become a problem up there. I'm also with you on the cold and snow. I keep running out, crawling about in the snow for a bit, coming in, needing more measurements etc. It's a pain in the....you know... We are scheduled for another 10" tonight (Just got the driveway cleared yesterday!) with lots of blowing and drifting. I'm concerned about the shed roof but need to wait until the snow-rake comes in the mail on Tuesday to do much about it. I'm afraid that going up on the roof to push the snow will add weight past the point already!
I'm spending time moving snow when I really want to be spending time putting things together. I need to put the backing plates on before I go too much further but can't get enough of a hole in the weather to do even that, nevermind the cold fingers and hands.
sigh.....
In the meantime, keep drawing, measuring and thinking....

Me too....

WilliamA

DarkWing

So, I have a question about the stock box and rack on the front of the boondock edge, how much does that thing weigh? Would I save any weight by removing it and going with a standard toung box?

WilliamA

My Delta brand truck tool box weighs about 10lbs less than the combined weight of the stock rack/box combo.

WilliamA