Safe to put Roof top tent?

hahmmo

Hi members,

My name is Changsoo, new here and dont own one yet, but seriously considering to purchase Tag XL.

My question is, whats the consensus on roof top tent on tag teardrop? I called nucamp several times, but got conflicting answers, so hoping to hear real user info.

First lady I spoke to didnt seem familiar with roof top tent to begin with, and cited 120 lbs roof capacity, and seemed a bit surprised about the idea of putting a tent on roof..

Then I asked for someone else to speak, who cited 160 lbs as capacity, but also said roof top tent will void the warranty, and R&D department discourage it.

Still not convinced, I asked for more technically qualified person, and was told roof top tent is fine, as long as crossbar is appropriate. Tag boondock comes with yakima control tower, which yakima categorize as appropriate for their own skyrise roof top tent, so I dont see issue with crossbar..I didnt get his name..

With varying answers, wondering if there is any member who has more insight into this issue. I see other offroad teardrop with similar aluminium frame who claim almost 1000 lbs capacity, so guess tag would be equally capable? Hoping to gather as many info as possible..I considered other teardrop such as Moby1, but prefer Tag..

I appreciate any input~

Thank you!

CampHub

@hahmmo,

Might reach out to these guys. They might have knowledge no one else does. https://rvt.com/NuCamp-TAG-XL-Teardrop-Trailer-2018-Scotch-Grove-IA-ID8157617-UX272707

TomD

The following link will take you to a company that sells a popular roof top tent. They give specifications on the weight of the tent assembly. If you take that value and add your weight you should have a good idea on the total weight impact on the roof of the TAG. After you know the overall weight you can match it to the TAG specifications and find that it usually exceeds the value. In my humble opinion it is not a good idea to put the roof top tent products on the roof of the TAG because of weight issues, wind resistance issues, vehicle height to weight dynamics, and the skewing of engineered overturning moments. These little trailers are dialed in as far as build and when you skew the values in weight and height there is trouble around the corner.
https://tepui.com/collections/tents

LuckyJ

Hello @hahmmo, and welcome to the forum and probably to the T@G and surely to the TD comunity.

Pretty agressive first post, wow. Now don't get me wrong here, you have a really good question and like you mentionned in your first post, the answer is not that easy to get from Nucamp, it is even hardly impossible to get. I did ask it my self, and in my case, the answer was 100 lbs on a regular T@G outback / Boondock. But even so, it was not convincing, cause they do not have any idea what is the differnce between dynamiq load and static load.

I also come from the RTT wold. I have an ARB pilabara and my GF has a Autohme hard shell. When I saw the T@G outback on the dealer's lot and I saw the rack, it was a wow, I will be able to install a RTT on the bars. Well, no one as ever been able to give a an answer other than 100 lbs. They do not seem to know the difference between the dynamic weight of a 100 lbs canoe that is dragging in a very bad wind d the slim profile of a 100 lbs hard shell RTT (think of a large rocket ski rocket box here). The canoe will end up giving the equivalent of probably around 1000 lbs real weight ro drag force on thos bars. But again, it is 100 lbs than I got. And I have absolutely no problem a loading my Yakima system (witch is excactly the same as the T@G btw well into the rtt opperationnal range of two adults, and 100 lbs of dogs.

I have seen a manufactured video on the T@G roof, but have no clue as to how the wall are structured, they more than likely have drawing fot theire suplier, but they will not share the info.

The only thing I can tell you about experience, is get in touch with the guys in my attached tread, they do install them. They might have gain experience about it. I am still debating in my head what I want to do. And I still not reust the canoe capacity with the answer they gave me.

http://teardrop-trailers.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/188/something-i-found#latest

I thing that also kind of stopped me in my track, is that when you have a RTT mounted on the rack, the fantastic fan door will not open. Not enough clearance.

Keep me informed of you finds. Have a good day!

hahmmo

@CampHub Thank you for the link! I see they use rhinorack? Interesting why they changed..

hahmmo

@TomD I see, didnt think about how much it would change towing dynamic... I just see a lot of offroad teardrop with RTT, assumed it’s fine.. Appreciate the input:)

hahmmo

@LuckyJ Thank you for sharing the experience! I appologize for aggressive post, I am kind of eager to pull the trigger, so might have been in hasty mode... From all the comments it may not be a simple issue.. Will check the thread!

LuckyJ

@hahmmo said:
@CampHub Thank you for the link! I see they use rhinorack? Interesting why they changed..

I do beleive that they use rhinorack accessories on the yakima rack.

Michigan_Mike

I'll send a note to the factory and try to get additional information. Obviously this would add more living space, but if the factory is against these units I'm sure their reasoning is logical too as they know the specs of loading forces, etc. as it relates to the frame components.

I will post up any response I receive back.

LuckyJ

@Michigan_Mike said:
I'll send a note to the factory and try to get additional information. Obviously this would add more living space, but if the factory is against these units I'm sure their reasoning is logical too as they know the specs of loading forces, etc. as it relates to the frame components.

I will post up any response I receive back.

@Michigan_Mike this topic is about living space, but the other question remains, about real load capacity depending on the type a lift ww can carry related to wind drag. I am still not convince I can safely carry a 99 lbs canoe, with the wind drag. But the answer I got is yes.

Thank you for this.

Michigan_Mike

For me personally and if I owned a T@G, no way. Why risk damaging the integrity of the unit for the sake of sticking people above the trailer for added living space. Don't get me wrong here as this is individual choice, people have every right in the world to do it and obviously because it does provide an additional and convenient and viable means for adding sleeping/living space when you have a family, etc.

My thoughts or reasoning here are that both the T@B and T@G units do not have wooden side walls and are constructed of a composite sidewall material. The frame that houses this material is aluminum. I'm certainly not a structural engineer, nor is this an area of expertise. I understand that the aluminum material does have strength capabilities, that when it is spread out over a surface there is added strength, etc. but how much is the real question? My gut instinct tells me that obviously anything is possible, but my inner feeling here says that this isn't a good idea and having owned 4 teardrops, I personally wouldn't do it and instead, would opt for a nice tent that could go up in minutes.

So with that said, to each his own.

LuckyJ

@Michigan_Mike said:
For me personally and if I owned a T@G, no way. Why risk damaging the integrity of the unit for the sake of sticking people above the trailer for added living space. Don't get me wrong here as this is individual choice, people have every right in the world to do it and obviously because it does provide an additional and convenient and viable means for adding sleeping/living space when you have a family, etc.

My thoughts or reasoning here are that both the T@B and T@G units do not have wooden side walls and are constructed of a composite sidewall material. The frame that houses this material is aluminum. I'm certainly not a structural engineer, nor is this an area of expertise. I understand that the aluminum material does have strength capabilities, that when it is spread out over a surface there is added strength, etc. but how much is the real question? My gut instinct tells me that obviously anything is possible, but my inner feeling here says that this isn't a good idea and having owned 4 teardrops, I personally wouldn't do it and instead, would opt for a nice tent that could go up in minutes.

So with that said, to each his own.

Ok, and what do you think about loading the 100lbs canoe that will drag in the wind like it weight 1000 lbs? And is well within the specification of Nucamp?

TomD

I recommend that all kayaks, canoes, and rooftop tents be placed on top of the tow vehicle and not the teardrops. Too many unknowns with the engineering of the teardrops and the reluctance of the manufacturer to give a straight answer on what can be done.

WilliamA

Hey all,
Though I generally agree in principle with NMMike's advice, I need to draw a line in the sand and say I'd rather give myself tooth surgery with a rock than go back to tent camping. My years of living the good life in the south of France taught me that there are some things that just aren't done in any situation short of an emergency....like drinking a bottle of 2015 Chateau Neuf du Pap some cretin has put in the refrigerator. Tent camping in a tent is high on that list for me. I'll take my tent camping in my T@G, with the soundtrack of "Roman Holiday" the musical rewritten with Cole Porter's spicy interludes into the dialogue while sipping a nice Uzo as a suppliment to Crevettes on the barbie. My new mantra: "The crappiest T@G mattress is softer than the most comfortable rock". I may be a cretin myself, but I'm a top-shelf cretin if you please.
Oh yeah.....focus....
So tents on trailers. Actually, if I had more than the one crumb-snatcher as my ward, I'd embrace that idea. Two problems:
1. Sidewall strength. Having spent some time poking my trailer with a stick, I'd opt out of putting my anvil collection on top. I don't think the T@g has the sidewall strength to safely hold up the extra weight. I am not saying it won't, just that it's not "designed" for it. There's a difference. I saw a guy put two JATO rockets on the sides of a chevy caprice wagon once and that worked, but I don't recommend it. The T@G simply isn't designed for that weight and laminar (aerodynamic) stress.
2. The running gear. Remember the axles, springs, frame, fasteners, etc, shiny stuff, dull stuff etc,etc? Max load, max load gravity, Newton and some other guys that could do math, etc,etc. Seriously, whatever goes up (on top), however well supported, must come down. As I've said often, I be!ieve the lightweight axle of the T@G to be its Achilles heel. It's not the most robust piece in the equation and loading must include aerodynamic stresses.
3. Frame strength for the T@G is on the border between "this should work" and the sound of sirens and the nauseating smell of a busload of lawyers.
4. My personal opinion is that if a rooftop tent is in your future, then it needs framing that does not depend upon the sidewall strength of the trailer.
You can work your way down from there...

"A pint cannot hold a quart.
If it only holds a pint,
It's doing the best it can"

WilliamA

CampHub

@WilliamA said: "My personal opinion is that if a rooftop tent is in your future, then it needs framing that does not depend upon the sidewall strength of the trailer" Sounds like how Jeep's put stuff on there rigs. Exoskeleton!

WilliamA

JEEP!!!!!!
Did I mention that I like my Jeep?

"Autobots, roll out!"

WilliamA

LuckyJ

@WilliamA , this time I will have to desagree with you, not about the wine, not about the groumd tent, but about the RTT and the framing of the wall. There is a frame aroumd the wall of ghose T@G. There is a frame aroumd the door, there is a frame around the roof line. I foumd it.

As for the RTT, nore a canoe, when traveling, they are simply a load. And a load that is well. Technicaly under the load range of the design specification. I would then add that I would be more worried about hauling a 80 lbs canoe of 2 kayak with a total of 80 lbs than carring a RTT on the Yakima factory instaled rack. Reason why, fuid dynamic. This is when you would have a better chance of laywers and sirene nightmare.

The question about a RTT is the difference between static capacity vs dynamic capacity.

Even If I am in the debate of the RTT on a T@G, the real question that they brought up with me is if a T@G factory rack can not support a RTT when park, how can it support a dragging canoe in the wind at 55 mph (that is the original ratted tire speed).

And personaly, I see no isues with the 2200 lbs axle of an outback /boondock T@G. And the questionable frame for me is now a thing of the past. Much stronger now.

But Michigan Mike is expecting answer from the factory for us on that side.

TomD

I would be very surprised if the factory responded to this issue. I don’t think I would respond knowing all the different dynamics and what that would mean as far as liability for the company.

WilliamA

Lucky,
I'd tend to agree that it's "probably" up to the job structurally. As I said in my post, if I had a platoon of crumb-snatchers, I'd be working the problem instead of penning this. But I'll err on the side of caution as to frame and axle strength. If I truly did more (and I do a lot!) serious off-road sortee's, I'd have already ditched the axle for a beefier unit with larger bearings and more travel, and gusseted the frame here and there. You know how cautious I am...
If I wanted to plop a rtt on there, I'd do it. Problems can be solved with patience and attention to detail. I don't doubt the sidewall strength, but have serious concerns about structural integrity at the joints where roof meets wall and wall meets floor. Vertical crush strength of the composites isn't the issue for me, its the boundary joints between the sub-structures. Yakima rack company has leagues of folk traversing the firmament hither and yon with rtt's attached.
But the hip-bone is connected to the knee-bone etc, etc. And those of us over 60 know how well that works.

And let's not overlook the obvious......it depends on the rtt.....

"It's not the weight
of iron
That grinds the bones to dust,
But the feather-weight of the hours, [or in this case, miles]
One atop another
That puts a man under."

WilliamA

LuckyJ

@WilliamA ok, I have to agree with the off road portion of this, like me, you have found out the the std T@G outback/boondock is more a looker (even if better than the basic T@G). The axle is beefier and so is the suspension, but it is no 3500 lbs berings, spindles and hubs and the frame and box is the same as the basic.

But as far as a RTT, when folded, it is just a load. And most of them are a 100 lbs box, like a cargo basket that is loaded with boxes that weight in at about a hundrd lbs. What is the differnce with a 100 lbs canoe or 2 kayaks that meet the 100lbs digit. In the dynamic world, the canoe and kayaks are harder on the T@G integrety than the same weight folded box.

And from what I read in your post, you understand the difference between dynamic load and static load. It is the same as dynamic stress on a structure and a static stress.

You can jack a 10 wheeler truck on cristal glass, as long as you do not twist of push the truck, cause then, the glass will just explode.

A yakima rack is rated at roughly 130 lbs dynamic, and close to 400 static. That means if car is not moving, you can have up to 400lbs on them, but as soon as you move, this goes down to 130 lbs for all the reason you have mentionned.

This is the type of answer I am expecting from nucamp, cause if I lose a canoe, I will get back to them for sure. When you slap stuff together, you have to know the capacity and limitation, not just make them nice to the eye. They are not prototype trailers built for the show room and rv expo, they are outthere on the road, and I am not even talking offroad. There is harldy any wind drag off road.

We will see. i)

Michigan_Mike

@LuckyJ said:

@Michigan_Mike said:
For me personally and if I owned a T@G, no way. Why risk damaging the integrity of the unit for the sake of sticking people above the trailer for added living space. Don't get me wrong here as this is individual choice, people have every right in the world to do it and obviously because it does provide an additional and convenient and viable means for adding sleeping/living space when you have a family, etc.

My thoughts or reasoning here are that both the T@B and T@G units do not have wooden side walls and are constructed of a composite sidewall material. The frame that houses this material is aluminum. I'm certainly not a structural engineer, nor is this an area of expertise. I understand that the aluminum material does have strength capabilities, that when it is spread out over a surface there is added strength, etc. but how much is the real question? My gut instinct tells me that obviously anything is possible, but my inner feeling here says that this isn't a good idea and having owned 4 teardrops, I personally wouldn't do it and instead, would opt for a nice tent that could go up in minutes.

So with that said, to each his own.

Ok, and what do you think about loading the 100lbs canoe that will drag in the wind like it weight 1000 lbs? And is well within the specification of Nucamp?

I doubt I'd stick a large canoe on the trailer, but possibly a lighter kayak!

LuckyJ

@Michigan_Mike said:

@LuckyJ said:

@Michigan_Mike said:
For me personally and if I owned a T@G, no way. Why risk damaging the integrity of the unit for the sake of sticking people above the trailer for added living space. Don't get me wrong here as this is individual choice, people have every right in the world to do it and obviously because it does provide an additional and convenient and viable means for adding sleeping/living space when you have a family, etc.

My thoughts or reasoning here are that both the T@B and T@G units do not have wooden side walls and are constructed of a composite sidewall material. The frame that houses this material is aluminum. I'm certainly not a structural engineer, nor is this an area of expertise. I understand that the aluminum material does have strength capabilities, that when it is spread out over a surface there is added strength, etc. but how much is the real question? My gut instinct tells me that obviously anything is possible, but my inner feeling here says that this isn't a good idea and having owned 4 teardrops, I personally wouldn't do it and instead, would opt for a nice tent that could go up in minutes.

So with that said, to each his own.

Ok, and what do you think about loading the 100lbs canoe that will drag in the wind like it weight 1000 lbs? And is well within the specification of Nucamp?

I doubt I'd stick a large canoe on the trailer, but possibly a lighter kayak!

That is the problem Mike, Nucamp only want to go by weight. And until they do come back to you on this, I would technicaly be covered by the warranty. With a 100 lbs canoe. So I think the designer need to start making calculation and comit him self with dynamic and static load limits, like yakima does.

And do not be fooled by kayaks, I have snaped a yakima J hooks kayak holder in strong side wind. And the kayak is about 50 lbs fiberglass sea kayak. Almost lost my kayak from my car. The yakima rack it self, witch is the same as the ones on the trailer did just fine and is still in use as is today. (When I say the same, I only have to adjust the width position of the towers, and I simply snap the tower on my trailer and vise versa.