T@g sound system. Those stock audio speakers could be improved... suggestions?

TaG_Im_It

The first step in making a stock audio system sound better is replacing the speakers. Or so I am told. I pulled out the screwdriver and saw the "PQN Audio ECO60-4W" installed. This speaker is weird because it is both 6" (kinda strange) and has a small depth... hence why it is installed in the ceiling of an RV. Seems very specialized. Haven't found a suitable drop in replacement. I am thinking I have to head to the local Auto/Marine audio shop and build some kind of enclosure for replacement speakers, that will certainly replace some headroom, in order to have decent audio performance. What have you done to improve the audio performance of the tag? (Not against replacing head unit too if necessary.)

ontheroad

Long time ago someone suggested that you make sure there's no debris from the manufacturing of the trailer....we've used the TV a few times and not really noticed a problem...haven't tried the radio or a CD...sorry not very helpful...😁

TaG_Im_It

Im kinda an audio snob. Those speakers sound bad. The system sounds bad. Most will probably not notice. Its been ok on my trips, but looking to upgrade.

LuckyJ

Sorry,mcan not help either. I like music, bur not so much while camping. We probably listen to 1 or 2 movies in 2 years, and never watch TV in the T@G, yet anyway.

But we did had the debris problem in our speaker. The system will do just fine for now. Anyway, anything to loud, and the neibourgh will have to endure what we listen of watch.

But if I would uprgarde, I would maybe just built apcer ring to increase the space needed.

TaG_Im_It

ok, I totally get how users don't care about the audio quality because they don't use it. Here's the thing, I do. I am alone these days and I love being able to pull up the latest Netflix / Amazon Prime documentary when I'm bored. I connect via an apple tv and tethering. I also love bluetoothing my apple radio stations.

If its "after hours" I use a bluetooth headphone so as not to disturb the neighbors.

This is after of course a day of hiking and fishing in the great outdoors.

I like the spacer suggestion.

tagurit

Don't often listen to music when camping, either, but when we do we just skip the Jensen and go straight to the Bose Bluetooth speakers, inside or outside the T@G, no worries.

TaG_Im_It

It would make me sad to totally bypass the poor quality audio system by throwing my phone and bluetooth at it. But, that would be a very reasonable thing to do. I do watch the screen via Apple TV / Tethering, so that raises a challenge of how to get audio out to a bluetooth solution while sending video to the apple tv. Might be easy, I could be dense.

LuckyJ

@TaG_Im_It said:
It would make me sad to totally bypass the poor quality audio system by throwing my phone and bluetooth at it. But, that would be a very reasonable thing to do. I do watch the screen via Apple TV / Tethering, so that raises a challenge of how to get audio out to a bluetooth solution while sending video to the apple tv. Might be easy, I could be dense.

I do think that your original idea to change and upgrade the speakers make sense if you want better quality speakers. But before knowing if only the speakers are involved, what about findind small speakers that you could only connect to the speaker wires and see if the jensen would be better with only speakers.

With the available space in our T@Gs, I am not to much on bringing something more like a blue tooth speaker when I alrady have speakers i. The trailer. But, the bluetooth can be use outside or by the fire if you also like music when sitting out.

Have fun outhere!

rich67

I too have noticed the poor speaker quality, but I don't think a speaker replacement is a good solution. I don't think the head unit itself is sufficient quality enough to output good audio quality. It's like the stock head unit in a Jeep. You can swap out all the speakers for high quality ones, but the tone just will never be there. A good quality compact bluetooth speaker will allow you to play your music on your phone. The speaker has to be Airplay compatible if you want to play audio out of your Apple TV though. I think (haven't tried it yet) you can mirror your phone or hotspot your phone to use the ATV, then select the external Bluetooth to play the audio. Not sure, but if that works, then it would be ideal. The speaker can be mounted behind your head on the headboard or in one of the upper storage bins. If anyone has used this method, maybe they can chime in if it works or not. Otherwise, i think the only way you can extract good audio quality is to replace the Jensen head unit and throw some speakers in the ceiling from Crutchfield.

TaG_Im_It

Oh believe me that head unit is also on the chopping block if need be. I just hate to think that I have this thing installed (that I bought originally) that I totally bypass thru bluetooth. I also like watching the TV. My preferred experience is to watch my various selections and apps on apple tv powered by a small 150 watt inverter with the unit then connected through the HDMI port to the TV. The audio then runs back to the jensen, per their pretty good instructions. I stream content currently via tehtering with iphone 10 when boondocking, so the experience offered by the Jensen is a good start as it all works, it just sounds sh*tty.

beaky

we listen to music a lot and set the EQ on rock which improves the sound. You do have to clean the speaks occasionally due to rattles. We aren't listening to Ministry, we prefer Coltrane, Miles, and 60's Samba sipping beer at the campsite. Salton Sea last weekend.

LuckyJ

@beaky said:
we listen to music a lot and set the EQ on rock which improves the sound. You do have to clean the speaks occasionally due to rattles. We aren't listening to Ministry, we prefer Coltrane, Miles, and 60's Samba sipping beer at the campsite. Salton Sea last weekend.

I do not know if it helped with the cleaning of the speaker over ling time, we do not use tyem that much, but when I did clean them, before reinstalling, I used tucktape to try to seal the speaker hole in the sealing, so that aluminium chip would not come back.

So far so good, but again, we hardly use the TV and sound system.

willbingham1

I did not replace inside speakers but did add a pair to the galley in home made small speaker boxes. Purchased these 4" speakers from Wally World ($19) and actually have a decent magnet, flexable diaphragm and sound reasonably well. Mounted boxes on surface of galley on sides (with Velcro tape) and made sure I had clearance opening and closing galley cover. Ran speaker wires off of head unit through edge of 12 volt plug in galley and then in small plastic surface mount conduit (self adhesive). Fired it up on speaker two and have good sounds (usually modern jazz) while cooking, etc. I will include a picture of galley as set. Also have done some rearranging of things there on galley wall on my 5ft 2017. Enjoy your camping, folks!

LuckyJ

@willbingham1 I am looking at your galley, and I have the feeling I see ours!

You are the fisrt one I see that had the same Idea about installing the same handle sideways for towel support. (In my case, I did cut one extremety so it would allow tye left door to fully open.

I also like your rear speaker install, even if we are not that much into music. Wonder tye wire could not be pass over the AC plenum box between the two walls (just behind the jensen unit.

Thanks for the idea.

Somemedic

Gotsta have my SLAYER. It seems to bring other campers around

beaky

Slayer and Ministry only allowed in the tow vehicle for me, lol

Fourman110

@willbingham1 said:
I did not replace inside speakers but did add a pair to the galley in home made small speaker boxes. Purchased these 4" speakers from Wally World ($19) and actually have a decent magnet, flexable diaphragm and sound reasonably well. Mounted boxes on surface of galley on sides (with Velcro tape) and made sure I had clearance opening and closing galley cover. Ran speaker wires off of head unit through edge of 12 volt plug in galley and then in small plastic surface mount conduit (self adhesive). Fired it up on speaker two and have good sounds (usually modern jazz) while cooking, etc. I will include a picture of galley as set. Also have done some rearranging of things there on galley wall on my 5ft 2017. Enjoy your camping, folks!

Looks pretty sharp!

willbingham1

As to my mode, I should also include the picture of the shelving under the sink, too. Easily disassembly with corner brackets that hold unit together because of the difficultly of fitting whole unit as one into place. Goes in piece by piece and is then screwed together at brackets. Provides additional space for silverware on slide out draw at bottom that can be removed for additional storage underneath drawer for some glass cooking ware and storage bag containers
. Also, not pictured is my small toaster oven that fills the right side of galley cabinet top with some modification to handles on toaster oven to allow galley hatch to completely close. The wiring for speakers is surface mount because I did not want to drill extra holes in wood back panel for wires and try to fish them through especially on the sink side (limited access). Access for wiring requires one to pull the Jensen panel from inside trailer cabin, wire in speaker two, and then feed speaker wires through twelve volt plug from inside the right side of galley and then into surface mount conduit. All can easily be removed with some heat from heat gun on self-stick conduit and speaker boxes that are held in place with heavy Velcro. Galley can be returned to normal. Also speaker boxes are open in back and do resonate off of wooden galley back to add richness (bass) to sound. Hope this long explanation helps.

LuckyJ

Gee, I am not even able to hit the Like button from my IPad.

So.......I like! Nice job!

CoryBeth

Rather than replacing the speakers, I think you'll probably get better quality sound by adding a compact class D amplifier. If I remember correctly when I researched the Jensen head unit, it only puts out 7 watts rms per channel, which is basically nothing. I'm considering adding at least a 50 watt per channel amp to mine. Most people think amps only make a stereo louder, but the truth is they also greatly improve sound quality even when the volume isn't up so high. You need power in the form of wattage sent to the speakers and I truly can't believe that Jensen unit puts out so little. The factory speakers can probably handle the 50 watts just fine, you can usually safely excede (a little bit) what the speakers are rated for without damaging them because speakers are usually rated conservatively.

TaG_Im_It

Hey CoryBeth, interesting advice. I am about to get back on the audio path after having installed a new battery and monitor. On this one, my first step is probably to drive out to a auto audio shop and see what they think. On the amp thing, I have played with the idea of having a switchable system that uses the amp (and more power) when I care about audio, but able to switch it off when I care about power. That would be cool I think.

CoryBeth

Yea that sounds like a good idea to. I would definitely be interested in hearing what a car audio shop would have to say about the speakers vs. amplifier topic. Keep us updated on that please. Also keep in mind the Jensen unit in these tags has the capability for three different zones, that means if you want all zones amplified you would need 3 different amps as well. On the other hand you could install the amp on zone 3 (which is probably unused currently) and then simply switch the Jensen to zone 1 or 2 when you are concerned about conserving battery charge. Also the compact class D amplifiers that are available really don't use up a lot of battery power, actually they are so efficient that most of them don't require a heavy gauge power and ground wire run to them, you can usually power them using 14 or 16 gauge wire.

KKrieg

I am interested also. I was tucked in for a few hours during severe thunderstorms this weekend and watched a DVD I had along for just such an occasion. I could barely understand the people talking without cranking the volume, but then the music would be blasting. There was almost non-existent bass. I am going to research replacement speakers on my own, but am definitely interested in hearing from other people, especially since I am not very handy with mechanics!

WilliamA

As a general rule for audio, (I know audiophiles that might disagree) the best sound is when the speaker is rated at the same or less than the amplifier. For example, if the amplifier is rated at 10 watts rms, then the speakers I would choose would be in the 10-15 watt range. If the speaker is rated much higher than the amplifier, a few things that are bad happen. A speaker is just a moving coil electromagnet glued to a piece of paper. The bigger the wiring in the electromagnet, the more it will move the paper cone, but the more power it will take to do the work.
In audio circles, you'll hear the term: "clipping". This refers to what happens to the audio wave when the amplifier reaches its limit of output. For example, the high frequency sound in the audio wave will be much smaller than the bass frequency. If the audio wave has lots of bass in it, the amplifier will reach its maximum capacity ("clip") before the speaker can properly process the audio wave and the result is severely unbalanced sound, I.E. the bass will be loud but there won't be any mid-range, etc. If your speakers are rated at lower input wattage, they will be much louder at lower volume levels on the amplifier (radio) which means the smaller output will be better able to balance the various frequencies.
Amplifiers and pre-amp gear is mainly used to split the output signal into frequency ranges. The pre-amp will separate the low frequency output from the high and put it on a separate output. The amplifier can then be set to have higher output for bass, midrange, treble, etc. Amplifiers in small spaces (like small travel trailers for example) are, in my humble opinion, a solution out looking for a problem. An amplifier does not improve the sound of a crappy speaker. It just makes it louder.
The O.E. speakers in my T@G are crap. They have plastic cones and sound like they were made out of old milk jugs. If you want good, balanced sound from your system, you don't need more power as much as you need better speakers. Just about any good brand of automotive aftermarket speaker will be an enormous improvement over the stock mud-producing noise makers in a T@G. It's also worth noting that aftermarket companies tend to have their own "sweet-spot" for making speakers. By that I mean Pioneer makes good low volume speakers while Jensen would be a better choice if you are listening to Icelandic death metal, etc. The Jensen speakers are more capable of loud without blowing up, but the Pioneer speakers will play my Strauss string quartet at much less volume with much more crisp clarity. If and when I get around to replacing the stock mud-box speakers in my trailer, I'll get some relatively low-wattage Pioneers that will fit in the stock opening, hook them up and forget about amplifiers.
Keep in mind that the most important requirement for speaker matching is to match the resistance number of the speaker to the output of the amplifier. For the un-informed, that means if the amplifier (Jensen radio) output says: "4 ohm", then get 4 ohm speakers. This has nothing to do with the wattage output. Don't try and run 8 ohm speakers with a 4 ohm amplifier. For specifics, look in your Jensen owners manual and see what the output rating actually is (I haven't looked). The speakers you look at in the big-box store are usually clearly labeled with their impedence, or ohms rating. It will give 2 numbers, for example: "7 watts per channel @ 4 ohms" or "10 watts rms @ 8 ohms" or whatever it says. The important thing to remember is the ohms number. The closer the ohms number matches the amplifier output ohms, the better and clearer the sound.
Amplifiers can end up using a lot of power and make your sound worse, not better. Running an amplifier into the stock speakers is a fools' errand that will not produce better sound, just louder noise. For better sound, change your speakers first, then build off of that....

WilliamA

KKrieg

Thank you! I just ordered new speakers because I would like to understand the local weather forecast when I listen to the radio. We had a tornado watch last weekend and I put the radio on to listen and had to crank the volume to make heads or tails of the report!!

OutdoorEd

Thanks, WilliamA. As always, you are an appreciated fountain of knowledge. My Jensen manual says the power output is 6 watts per channel, compatible with 4-8 ohm speakers (4 ohm minimum).

OutdoorEd

I replaced the OEM speakers with some Fusion shallow-mount 2-way speakers. We only use the sound system when watching Netflix on rainy nights, but I hated the sound from the original speakers. The new audio is crisp and clear. Game changer.

Chaverim

Did you need a spacer or was it just remove and install?

what part did you order?

OutdoorEd

The originals used a spacer to make the depth of the opening about 1.5 inches. So, with the 1 5/8" shallow-mount speakers it was simply remove and replace. For a deeper speaker like a typical car speaker, you would need to add considerable spacing.

OutdoorEd

Also, while the Jensen doesn't provide a proper equalizer, it does allow wide adjustment of treble and bass, which I found very helpful in getting the new speakers dialed in.

This is fer sure not a home audio quality sound. For that you would also need to replace the receiver, as others have suggested. But, it is only a camper, after all, and this change makes Netflix sound very good.

BBsGarage

@OutdoorEd Do you have a link to these magical speakers?