Front end rebuild: Wisconsin edition...

WilliamA

Hi all,

Well, it's cold and dark so it's time to get outside here and tear the trailer to shreds and re-do some things. I commandeered some space in the ex's shed (lights, plug-ins, out of the wind, no heat) and tore everything that wasn't welded on off in order to do some needed upgrades. I have been grinding sausage over storage options and decided to go back to the old standard "aluminum box on the tongue" technique. It's fair to say that even though one has the same volume of storage using many smaller containers, the total space is not nearly as functional as one large container of the same volume.
I had previously pulled off the front handles (D-rings? Hitchin-posts? Anchor points? Not sure what they were for.) I pulled the aluminum box off, battery and its container, propane tank and regulator, bike rack, wiring and pulled the aluminum rack off and got down to business.

First, the 4 bolts holding the stock aluminum rack on were all bound tight and wouldn't come off. Sadly, only three of them broke. The fourth ended up coming off in tiny steps forward over the course what seemed like an hour (probably much less than that). I could have gotten it off a bit faster if I hadn't spent quite a bit of time stepping back to enrich the environment with expletives. The stainless steel bolts are hard to break and harder to wrench off when they won't. Moving along. I cut the weird (cool looking, but nonetheless weird) upright aluminum hoops off the rack with a hacksaw and then put the rack back on in its original spot. Not bolted on yet, just a test-fit. I picked up my tool box at Farm and Fleet yesterday and spent a half hour or so coaxing off the three stand-up legs on the bottom. Once those were hacked off, I was able to set the box on the platform to see how things would fit. Perfect, as it turns out. There's a tiny bit of rubbing where the toolbox sits against the front of the aluminum rack underneath but I'll put a bit of something slippery between the two so it doesn't sound like two cats scratching the skin off each other when underway. I set the propane tank on the end to see how it fits and how much bracing I'll need to ensure it doesn't fall off and roll down the interstate like a depth charge looking for a submarine. Very important. I had planned to make a small rack for the propane bottle and bolt it to the end of the toolbox but the propane tank and contents are just too heavy. Today I'll go into the auto parts store and pick up a few bolts, some wire and an extension for the propane hose (low pressure side hose) I will bolt the regulator on the toolbox just in front of the tank to keep the high pressure hose as short as possible. I am moving the battery and components inside the toolbox and will vent it to the outside. Much detail work to do but it's moving along. Should be "road-ready" in a day or two.

WilliamA

BBsGarage

Looks good, is there enough space in the back to open that up?
Do you have a battery somewhere in there?
I could use more storage outside of the camper for a few of the set-up items.

Texas_Dave

Nice job!

WilliamA

Well, a trip to Fleet Farm and some quality time spent putting in bolts and it's all tight. I need to make a strap for the propane tank and string the wiring inside to the battery but it's all there. Lots of detail work but if things go according to hoyle, I'll be pulling it outside for a power test by the weekend. I've got all the wiring accessories necessary to do it. Just got froze out this afternoon. It's snowing pretty hard too, which means I probably need a bagel with cream cheese and a movie.

Here's everything bolted down and snug. I need to make a strap for the generator but if I need to make a getaway for now, I can just throw a ratchet strap on. The fit is tight all around with a scant 1/4" front and rear for the generator. Good enough though. Good enough...

Here's the propane regulators new home. I need to get an extension hose (low pressure side) and put it on but it's otherwise comfortable there. I also like that it's out where I can see to keep it clean and check it from time to time.

Yeah, the battery and electric bits are inside the box. I mounted it inside, front and center with the long axis of the battery parallel to the long axis of the toolbox. I really didn't want to put it in there but it was either that or find another place for the gennie. This is fine. I'll post a couple of pics of the inside with wiring once I get that all managed.

WilliamA

Dan_Ann

Very nice! I especially like the added area for the generator.

TomD

I love your stuff. However..It does look like the tounge weight might be compromised a little with the extra weight. Tearing off the handle thingees was brilliant. I don’t get those at all. I have followed your stuff from the LG forum to this forum. Your willingness to modify is awsome and thought provoking. Thanks for the input.

WilliamA

Hi Tom,
The tongue weight is less with the gennie than with my 7 gallon water can in the same location by 14 lbs. I check my math constantly. The only weight I need to compensate for is my bike. It's 37 lbs. I need to carry my awning and 2 chairs in the galley and that will keep it even. By removing them from the roof rack (and removing the roof rack) I'll easily stay within my total and well below the GCWR. I plan to carry my water can (empty) in the jeep when on the highway. With all the changes, I'm within 4-5% of my "before" weight.

I never could figure out the handles either. Ikea?

Thanks for the kudos. I am just glad folks might get some inspiration.

WilliamA

Michigan_Mike

Nice job William! I like the fact that you moved the propane tank outside, thus eliminating the potential for buildup in the box should it have a leak or if the pressure valve push propane out and having it settle low in the box as it's heavier than air.

As with any of these front mods attention does need to be centered on the tongue weight since added weight will affect not only the performance of the trailer, but adds additional stresses to the frame. There are dynamic loading forces that do occur during travel as a vehicle goes up and over inclines, the trailer bounces, may flex from side to side, up and down and may cause metal to fatigue, bend and break at bolt locations and other areas where added stresses are placed.

The T@B trailer that I purchased was refurbished after the previous owner added gas cans, a generator and planking to the tongue area of the trailer and drove it up to Alaska and back. He also placed a couple of cinderblocks inside the bench and at the rear of the trailer to counter the tongue weight. As a result of the added tongue weight and his efforts to offset it, he ended up cracking the trailer frame and nüCamp had to remove the trailer body, replace the floor and install a new frame.

So always take the time to think about these things and inspect the frame and body components to ensure that things are intact and safe. It certainly doesn't mean you can't perform these types of modifications, just be aware of the limitations and do your best to stay within the parameters of the tongue weight.

WilliamA

I have the lions' share of upgrades finished and it remains only to do a few detail things. I've nonetheless got it finished enough where it can be used and, most importantly, moved around.
As Mike said, I have been conscious of tongue weight throughout the project. I have weighed nearly everything and got before/during/after tongue weights. I carefully weighed each item and recorded them in a log that I'll post here for reference.
I ended up working through 3 possible layouts before coming back around to the "kiss" layout. This only after scrapping two other layouts as they were either too much weight on one side or just plain too heavy so far as tongue weight is concerned.
I started out with my maximum/minimum tongue weight goal and worked the problem until I hit the window quite nicely.
Here are the basic numbers:
Tongue weights:
Before: 190lbs
This is as I was using it with stock front box, rack, battery, propane tank. That also includes the two plastic storage boxes I had mounted along with their contents.
Empty: 64lbs
This reflects the trailer with everything bolted to the tongue removed (minus the parking jack, of course.) The box, battery, propane tank and rack were all removed.
During: 190lbs (failure #1)
This weight reflects the photo I posted at the start of this thread with generator and propane tank onboard, stock rack on and additional storage box on the stock rack. Keep in mind that this weight reflects the items mentioned, but with the storage box empty and bicycle not mounted on the rack.
After: 187lbs

This weight reflects all items shown plus battery, new (5lb) propane tank, storage box with contents inside (more or less what I always carry) bicycle and rack on and, one of my primary goals, chairs moved into the storage box. So while the weight is on the high side of my "window" it's within it. During my weighing frenzy, I discovered that my bike rack actually weighs over 20 lbs. I wouldn't have believed that one. I had it figured for about 10 lbs. I will soon go out and secure the pieces to do my original bike rack design that uses only the fork mount and two tie-down eyes. That will reduce the 187 back to 170 or so.
It's important to note here that the water tank and galley are pretty nearly empty. The added weight of a tank of water and some misc foodstuffs will offset the tongue weight by at least another 15-20 lbs. I could shed another 10 lbs of tongue weight by moving the trailer spare over to the roof rack on my car. While it weighs more than 10 lbs, it's close to the axle so the total weight added to the tongue is at 10lb. So all things taken into account, I have 30 lbs of tongue weight (spare tire and bike rack) that I can manage in any way I want. NuCamp says that the trailer tongue weight as delivered is 160 lbs. I set out to have the tongue weight no less than 175 nor more than 190. I'm actually a bit concerned that once I've got water onboard, I'll be a bit light. If the trailer weighs 1400 lbs loaded, I don't want the tongue weight to be less than 10% of that and would rather it were about 12% or so, which puts me right where I am. Tomorrow I'll take it out for a drive around the block and see how everything works.

Here's the battery and associated wiring all tidy. The wiring over in the corner of the box is for my backup lights. I've got them wired through a relay and switch so I can either select that they come on in reverse or turn them on for camp setup while I'm away from the car. There's a toggle switch in that mess that I can throw to select the mode. The relay is a 30 amp high/low job. Standard auto wiring stuff. I made the small bumper just to keep anvils and things from sliding into the relay and switch. An ounce of prevention and all that...

I pop-riveted this strap anchor on, then captured a bungee cord so I can keep my pliables in order. It's an attempt to keep the rat nest of cables and hoses in check. Might work, might not.

Here's the devil in those details. My scale runs about 2 lbs off but it's close enough for this job.

For those interested, here are the raw numbers:

Battery/box: 40lbs
Generator (with .8gallons gas): 49lbs
Propane tank, 20 lb bottle with gas: 46lbs
Stock Tag front storage box: 22lbs
Stock aluminum rack (Outback only): 24lbs
Delta toolbox: 28lbs
Bike Rack (Rocky): 21lbs
Bicycle (Norco 26" Fatbike): 37lbs
Propane tank, (new 5lb cylinder): 6lbs (empty tare weight. Add 4.5lbs for fuel)

On the "yet to do" list is to add a vent for the battery. I've run the trailer to test the wiring and all seems to be working fine. I also ran the generator and tried it to see how it all works and that also seems to be fine. On "Eco" mode, the generator barely gets off idle running the battery charger. I ran my 110V heater for a bit off the generator and it seems to be working great but works a bit harder to keep the 750 watts moving around. As I can charge my trailer battery off the car if need be, the generator is 90% for using the heater when off-grid. It's just a bit noisier than the vaunted Honda or Generac super-quiet models, but it's also $400 bucks less and is narrower as well. I don't plan to use it in RV parks so that's not the issue.

Thanks Mike for keeping up the good fight on tongue weight. The two of us seem to be monastic on the topic, for very good reasons. It's not rocket science though. A bit of forethought and a bathroom scale are the tickets to good traveling.

WilliamA

WilliamA

I finished the detail work at last and things seem to be working well. I had it out and hooked up to the gennie with charger and heater running and all is well with the world again. With the exception of grubbing about for a different bike mount (which I can postpone so long as this one serves the purpose), I'm ready for the next adventure.

I have everything bolted down and tight. I cut the tongue rack off my stock rack and got it squeezed in between the box and jack. I reassembled the regulator and new line extension and pressure tested it this morning. Seems to work. I'll use the empty side of the rack here to put a 1 gallon can for my gennie gas. Plenty of room and not much weight.

Now to get out the maps and figure out how far and how much it costs to make it to: Glamis, The Salton Sea and Death Valley.

WilliamA

WilliamA

@BBsGarage said:
Looks good, is there enough space in the back to open that up?
Do you have a battery somewhere in there?
I could use more storage outside of the camper for a few of the set-up items.

Bill,
Sorry I missed the question you posted. Yes, the box has a recess for the hinge and lid so it will open fully when mounted tight to the trailer. If you look further down in the thread, you can see a photo of the recess on the box.

WilliamA

DarkWing

So, by taking off just the aluminum rack and box, I can lose 46lbs. of tongue weight, all else staying the same? I am looking and something similar to what you did, put on a truck tool box and putting everything back inside, so I am looking at the delta between the stock and the new box only, everything else with stay the same (for now...evil laugh).

WilliamA

That was my experience. The rack and stock box weighed more than the Delta truckbox I replaced them with. It's also my experience that tongue weight is like a 10 year old boy with a sabre saw. Constant vigilance is required...
WilliamA

GigHarborTom

I would like to hear what you did for propane and electrical penetration through your front aluminum box. I have experience with larger aluminum trailer, put penetrations' came up through wooden floors. Bottles out side with copper run underneath and within belly pan. Thanks Tom

WilliamA

Hi Tom,

When I run wiring through the box, instead of grommets I use automotive PCV vent grommets. Those are the grommets that snap into the valve cover on throttle body equipped cars. (Think: 90's Chevy pickup)They can be had in different styles and sizes and are thicker and far more rugged than standard grommets. A query at your local parts store should be fruitful. I use them also for propane hose. I run my wiring through split- loom wire protector and then run the loom up into the box from the back. It's been my experience that these tool box style replacements must be well vented or they puddle moisture and condensation in a big way. I vented mine on the back with pop riveted louvers top and bottom.

WilliamA

HellFish

So, William...I bet you invented the Swiss Army Knife, right?

WilliamA

No.....But after getting my first folding knife I did invent stabbing myself in the calf muscle. Not my best work.....But it WAS exciting...😎

WilliamA

GigHarborTom

So William…. Appreciate your input. I bought grommets and they did not look heavy duty enough to me. Like your suggestion. I use the split loom frequently. We used to use the PCV grommets on the Vintage '61Avion door stop. Those suicide doors required a lot of loving. We had enough money in restoration and upgrades of that beast. Could have bought 3 T@Gs. We did have a lot of fun at vintage trailer events and 3 to 5 week road trips.
Thanks again..

WilliamA

Parts are parts. They only earn their name through application.

WilliamA