Updating Your Power Center for LiFePo4: WFCO or Progressive Dynamics?
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I also found this video featuring a WFCO technician (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MA5lKMf9A). I'm going to try their recommendations for charging and mode switching and report back.
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Well, needless to say the recommendations in the previous video did not trigger the lithium mode. In the video, the WFCO technician seems to indicate that they didn't want a manual switch because folks might make a mistake on which mode to use. They also make a lot of excuses for why the autodetect might not work and mostly blame the RV manufacturers - cable runs too long, wire gauge too small, etc. Their solutions aren't really workable - re-wire with heavier gauge wiring, add a second power center closer to the battery, etc. So mostly the video seems to be them trying to counter all of the negative comments on forums about how their autodetect does not work.
So I ran my battery down again and plugged into shore power with the breaker for the converter off. I then flipped the breaker and lo and behold the converter was delivering 14.2 volts at 20 amps. However, this only lasted for a few minutes before both the voltage and current fell to 13.5 volts and 4 amps. The battery gradually charged over 10 hours at that rate and topped off at 98%. The red bulk charge light never came on, and the converter stayed in lead acid mode (green light). 98% is pretty good, and I'm happy with that level of charge. Essentially the converter when plugged into shore power is in 'power mode' and trickle charging the battery due to the voltage difference - as this difference decreases the current is also decreasing until the battery and converter power are in equilibrium. This will work for me - there just isn't any 'fast charge' mode with this condition.
I've left multiple messages with WFCO tech support asking for a jumper to force the converter into lithium mode. I've gotten no response. I've tried their warranty and order lines too with no answer from anyone. Not sure what is going on, but WFCO customer service appears to be nonexistent.
So, in the end I could have kept the original 8725 and just charged the lithium battery in 'power mode' as the 8725-AD is doing now and saved several days worth of work and some cash. But it did give me the opportunity to discover some of the sub-standard wiring that NuCamp had done and correct that. We'll see if WFCO ever contacts me. I'll probably keep sending them weekly messages and update if I hear back.
For those trying to decide if they should replace their original WFCO 8725 with an AD model or trying to decide if they should instead go with a Progressive Dynamics model, I hope my experience helps with your decision.
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I am surprised that WFCO has not been responsive. I always got to speak with a knowledgeable technician every time I needed.
As far as changinging my converter in my 2018 T@G when I switched over five years ago to lithium, I did not. I do not find the need.My onboard converter will charge up my lithium battery to 84% when plugged into shore power, but if plugged in with my refrigerator running, the charge will reach 96%+.The difference is how the converter cycles between various converter operations modes (absorption [13.6V]/bulk [14.4V]).
Besides changing out my USB outlets, I have had no wiring issues or concerns with my T@G.
As far as getting my lithium to 100% SOC, that takes place under solar or when I use a battery charger which I easily connect up via my SAE plug. Lithium batteries need, a 100% charge to start balancing the cells.
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@JamesDow thanks for the comments. Yeah, not sure what's going on with WFCO, but I hope they get back to me at some point.
In the end, I think your strategy is probably for the best. The existing 8725 can charge the lithium battery to well over 90% (mine is like 98% from the lead acid mode on the AD version). Solar can do the rest, or an occasional top off with an external charger to balance the cells. My PWM solar charger (Renology Voyager) will just get the battery to about 98% also - a MPPT would likely get it to 100%. But I'm probably not going to change mine out - just occasionally top off with an external charger.
So essentially my current set up is for the lithium to be slow charged by the WFCO when plugged into shore power to about 98%, the lithium to be also slow charged while connected to solar (about 4 amps at 13 v from my 100 watt solar suitcase) to about 98%, and for the lithium to also be slow charged by the tow vehicle while driving. I'll occasionally top off with my Noco Genius external battery charger to balance the cells.
In the second video I linked above with the WFCO technician, they discuss that LiFePO4 batteries shouldn't regularly be charged to 100% in order to extend their lifetime. So I feel my routine 98% charges may be better for the battery anyway.
Thanks again, and happy camping! -
I finally got a call back from WFCO this morning - Austin Milcherska was very nice and agreed to send me a jumper for my AD unit to force it into lithium mode exclusively. He also sent installation instructions in a follow up email. I'm attaching them to this post for reference.
We also spent a little time trying to troubleshoot the issue. Basically he said that:- The battery has to draw over 22 amps in order for the converter to ramp the voltage up to bulk charge. Mine at most has pulled 19-20 amps while in a low charge state.
- The battery should be drained to 10-20% in order to facilitate the 'detection step'. Mine was down to 20%, but even at that charge level the voltage was still 13.1 volts, and the 'detection step' did not work.
- At the end of the charge cycle the converter will switch from a green to blue light indicating the lithium charge profile. Mine did not do this. It stayed green both times I charged from a depleted battery.
- Many batteries do not require a higher voltage charge mode. I'm not sure what this means. All batteries should be able to trickle charge.
- Voltage drop is a serious issue. You should have .3 volts or less of drop. I imagine this is referring to the distance between the converter and battery along with the wire gauge issue. Something I cannot control.
- The battery controls everything to do with the charging - the converter just provides the voltage; the battery takes care of everything else. The battery BMS likely isn't limiting the incoming current, so I'm not sure how this applies. The converter should provide the appropriate voltage and if it's not seeing the battery as depleted then it is not providing the voltage.
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“In the video, the WFCO technician seems to indicate that they didn't want a manual switch because folks might make a mistake on which mode to use.”
Speaking as a manual-switch model owner, I’m glad I didn’t see that video before I bought my WFCO. If I did, I’d’ve told WFCO to take their power center and… Well…. You know.
I’m not even sure how you could make a mistake like that; if you’ve got a lead-acid battery you use lead-acid mode. If you’ve got lithium, you use lithium mode. Seems pretty straightforward and mistake-resistant to me.Dave in Michigan
'21 T@G XL
"If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." ~ The Cheshire Cat (Alice in Wonderland) -
Have you considered just making a jumper from a short piece of wire?
RV 2016 T@G 5W
TV 2019 Outback or 2011 4Runner
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