New Tow Vehicle

WilliamA

Just picked up my new 2017 Jeep Wrangler unlimited yesterday. Max tow package and 3.73 gears. I put 210 miles on it yesterday coming back from the dealer where I found it. So far so good. I need to run wire for the electric brakes, reverse lights and charging line with appropriate relays but should have that sorted out by the middle of Jan. It's cold, snowing and windy today (wind chill -14) so I may wait until it "warms up". Sigh...

The new object of my obsessive/compulsive mechanical affection. Lots to do before the middle of January.

WilliamA

LuckyJ

Nice! Jeep a cool TV for a TD!

nbrandt

WilliamA - perhaps you have done this before, but please talk a little more about the "appropriate relays."

WilliamA

@nbrandt said:
WilliamA - perhaps you have done this before, but please talk a little more about the "appropriate relays."

Well,
There's an old French curse that goes: "May your fondest dream come true."

I have strong feelings on many things and am an outright adherent of Neil degrasse Tyson's mantra that "it's always better to know." Simply put, I believe that, whether you use the information you collect or not, you should always be collecting information.

If there is interest enough, and if the moderators are in agreement, I'd be happy to pen up a primer on basic to advanced electrical widgets as they relate to our trailer obsessions. It wouldn't be for everyone, but as the threads show (constantly) there is a large need for some electrical basic theory and practice.

So is it Auf? Or Zu?......

WilliamA

Douglas

William I bought a 7 pin wiring harness for about a 100 dollars of of amazon plug and play
Hook to battery, plug into tail lights and was even wired for the break system

WilliamA

Hey Douglas,
I also looked at the Mopar "official" 7 way harness as well as a Hopkins composite harness to use. They are both composite harnesses but don't include a provision for back-up lights on the trailer. I elected to pick up a Hopkins 7 way plug, mounting bracket, some 10 gauge wire (red and black) a few electrical connectors and plastic split wire loom. My setup will include all of the circuits including back-up lights, be dual-plug capable (both 7 and 4 way) and will have a provision for running the wire loom in a different place under the Jeep than the Mopar harness. All of the stuff I picked up today was $54 and change. "More for less", plus I'm neurotic and would rather do it myself where I can control the parts fit and quality.

WilliamA

Michigan_Mike

I have strong feelings on many things and am an outright adherent of Neil degrasse Tyson's mantra that "it's always better to know." Simply put, I believe that, whether you use the information you collect or not, you should always be collecting information.

If there is interest enough, and if the moderators are in agreement, I'd be happy to pen up a primer on basic to advanced electrical widgets as they relate to our trailer obsessions. It wouldn't be for everyone, but as the threads show (constantly) there is a large need for some electrical basic theory and practice.

WilliamA

There's no written rule that forbids this William so that's your call. But with that said your comment did spur my memory and this might save you a bunch of time as it explains RV Electrical systems and provides a ton of useful and helpful info for people who are not familiar with RV Electrical systems and basics.

RV Electrical Systems

WilliamA

I got bored this afternoon and built my rear to front (front to rear?) trailer wiring harness. Inside the harness are two 10 gauge wires (one red, one black) for the battery and ground, one 12 gauge wire (red) for brakes and one 18 gauge wire (also red) for the feed from the brakelight circuit in the rear up to the trigger for the brake controller.

The white wire roll originates at the trailer plug (center terminal) for the backup lights. I'll split the existing 4 way harness cover and run that over to the left taillight where it'll tap into the backup light circuit. Remember, I have my trailer backup lights on a relay so they actually run off the trailer battery. The white wire is just a signal wire to energize the relay. The small red wire will be the brakelight wire tap that goes forward as the trigger for the brake controller. Normally, I'd tap into one of the brakelight switch wires for the brake controller trigger circuit, but as I must run a harness to the front and have to cut the existing 4 way plug off and wire it to the 7 way plug anyway, I just ran the trigger wire to hook up at the splice I need to make. It's easier than laying under the drivers seat with my feet sticking out the sunroof for an hour while making a tap for the brakelight switch. The trigger for the brake controller only needs a tiny amount of amperage (200 milliamps or so) which means there's no need for a large-ish wire. The brake activation wire back from the controller to the brakes is 12 gauge and will run out of the brake controller on the blue wire. That circuit has a 6 amp max draw so I figured 10 amps and stepped up from 14 to 12 gauge due to the length of the circuit.

Now all that's left
is everything else...

WilliamA

WilliamA

I got my new harness in and working today. It was a full frontal drubbing from one end to the other. Most of the time was spent pulling (cold, brittle) plastic. I was careful not to break anything. Lights, including backup lights and charging line are working fine. Brakes show an intermittent red. I suspect a connector issue. I'll run that down tomorrow but I'm beat.
Bird by Bird...

WilliamA

ontheroad

looks like a nice vehicle to tow the T@G with...congrats!

WilliamA

Just got done troubleshooting my trailer brake controller. I had a red light on the controller that would come on after disconnecting the trailer. Turns out, (I called tech support to confirm) because I have the brake light wire run direct and not through the ignition switch, it will turn to red when I disconnect the trailer harness. It never did that in my Cherokee because I would shut it off to connect or disconnect the trailer, which resets the controller. The Tech said either condition is normal depending upon where the trigger wire is hooked up i.e. Switched throughout the ignition or hot whenever the brake lights are on. I'm pleased and happy to be up and running, even with the red light snipe hunt. They COULD have put that in the manual though...

WilliamA

BBsGarage

They can't put everything in the manual, the techs get lonely and need to talk to someone.

WilliamA

I have everything put together and all seems to be well. I have my bike rack finished and detailed out, all the wiring for the trailer sewn up and tested and most of my "stuff" packed into some semblance of order. I hooked up today and took the trailer out for a ride around the neighborhood to test the brakes and see how it tows with the new Jeep. It was uneventful, which is exactly what I wanted. The new mule seems much more capable as a tow vehicle and is happy in whatever gear it happens to be in.

WilliamA

Michigan_Mike

Looks good William! All you need now is an electric hookup!

TomD

What’s that white stuff on the ground😳

LuckyJ

Probably the same stuff that is on our T@G!

Michigan_Mike

Wow! That looks discouraging to me and I think I will leave for Arizona sooner, rather than later! YIKES!!!!

ericmooreco

You all can send that white stuff out here . The ski season is not looking good so far.

WilliamA

We are on deck for 8" more between now (it's snowing as I write this) and Friday morning. Then it's scheduled to get cold for the holiday...

Eric,
I'll bring some with me in Jan...

WilliamA

LuckyJ

@WilliamA said:
We are on deck for 8" more between now (it's snowing as I write this) and Friday morning....
WilliamA

Yes, If you get it,mthen it should be heading our way a couple days from now.

I remember when I was a ski Patroler at Swiis Valley (in Jones MI) a snow storm once closed the resort ( well troppers asked them to close so people would not get on the road). But It was sometimes snow, often ice or very hard pack snow. But still, I was skiing! 😎

WilliamA

There's not much going on within the forum so I thought I'd give an update on my new tow vehicle. I've been working like mad getting ready for my extended trip out to Ca in a few days and can't seem to leave things alone. I wanted to get some things done to the Jeep before I take off. Here's an update:

I started with a flurry of activity on the net ordering parts. The UPS guy snarls at me now every time he stops by so it's probably good that I'm getting out of town for a bit. My new Barricade winch bumper arrived so I peeled off the flimsy stocker and set it aside for recycling. I bolted on the new one and moved the fog lights and driving lights over and got those wired up. The new winch arrived and I got to work bolting that on.

There were some "reservations" within the household about all the new hardware I'd added but two days after I got it all mounted up, the ex did a reverse-immelman with a 540 degree pirouette backwards down the driveway, stuffing her minivan nose down into the ravine. I whipped out my new recovery gear and had her dragged out and up in no time. Now she thinks my winch is cool, which is what I live for...

My next load of hardware arrived hot off the boat from China in the form of steel tubular Jeep fenders. I knew that would not be a cold weather job so I headed down to my oldest son's house in Madison, Wi. Much better. The temp in his garage was hovering at 10 above. I worked in my underwear.

I was a bit anxious about getting these knockoffs to knockoff steel fenders but they came in great shape, well packaged and hardly the worse for wear. I could have gotten a set from one of the U.S. manufacturers but found these on Amazon for $500.00 less with free shipping. Finish and design are fantastic. Fitment was perfect and nary a hole had to be redrilled to make them fit.

Next order of business was to peel off the stock fenders. New fenders on Jeeps are a bit like Romaine lettuce. Rather than strength, it's layer after layer of plastic, all assembled with fun to remove plastic rivets and odd fasteners. Even more fun at 10 odd degrees. Plenty of opportunities to stab myself with a screwdriver. I took advantage of most of them.
Rears are off.

A couple of layers in on the fronts.

At last! Bare steel!

A couple of hours and a blood transfusion later, I had a pile of plastic parts that two guys on horseback couldn't see over. A quick break for coffee and medical attention and it was back on the job. Putting the steel fenders on was mostly a function of putting in "Rivnut" inserts into the fender holes. I drilled out the holes and spent most of the rest of the evening putting in the rivnuts with my homemade rivnut tool. Those of you who have used them know it can be something of an adventure getting them in properly and can quickly turn into a nightmare if they are a little bit wrong. I took my time and did it right the first time.
Here's my homemade apparatus for installing them. It consists of a large-ish angle (shelf) bracket, drilled to 8mm. Very clever....

I got a few long 8mm bolts and extra nuts for the job. I threaded a nut onto the bolt, put a flat washer against the nut and then inserted it into the bracket. I then screwed the rivnut onto it.

I clamped the angle bracket onto the fender with vice-grips, which puts the rivnut tightly against the fender and prevents it from turning. After spraying the threads down with WD40, I held the bolt head with another vice-grip and tightened the nut to compress and seat the rivnut. In-elegant, but effective, if slow. It took me about 45 minutes to install all of the rivnuts I needed for the job.

Rivnuts all seated and tight. I dabbed on some automotive enamel before putting the rivnuts into their spots. Some people also use caulk to seal the body.

The finished product, all pre-salted, frozen and ready for the road. I replaced the stock side marker light with small orange led's I mounted inside the front of the fenders. I also spent some time cutting up the inner fender liners for the front so I could put them back in. I'll eventually (springtime) get some aluminum liners but the stockers will keep road chum out of there for now. I really like the looks and the added strength.

I've got two more packages coming. One is a big bag of rivnuts for various other jobs, the other is a rear bumper delete kit with D-ring mounts. Wednesday I'll peel off the stock rear bumper and add it to the scrap heap, install my bumper delete kit and that's it before T@bAZONA 18! Looking forward to that in spades....

WilliamA

LuckyJ

Nice job on the fenders and good tips on home made rivenut tool. Do not know if you knew, you can also purchase a special nut for maybe a buck or two that has some kind of teeth on one side so it grips the rivenut and like you, use a graded bolt to press.

And of course, you can get the rivenut crimpers for a much more cash.

Anyhow, good job, but now that you have wider opening, you need beiiger tires!

WilliamA

Lucky,
I've used those special nuts as well. Problem is they aren't very durable and threads go away quickly. The hardened ones will last many cycles. I just found a giving tool on the net for $40 bucks. Might try one... As to bigger rubber, I will be spooning on some larger, but civilized tires soon. After much research and a long talk with my buddy Neil (who owns a tire shop) I've decided to go with Cooper AT3's in size P295/70/17. A couple inches bigger than the minivan Bologna-skins on it now but with a more aggressive all-terrain tread. I currently have no plans for a lift kit. One beating at a time....

WilliamA

LuckyJ

@WilliamA , as for the tire, I was not refering to much larger, but like you said, just something to fill up the opening. Caus going bigger and pulling a ttrailer, also mean diff ratio / gear change. Sercet is in balance. If you do not plan extrem off road adventure, stock or just above stock is great.

I went from a 6" all suspension lifted YJ with 35" bogger for trail and 33" anything cheap and used I could find for travel and street with 4,56, to a 3" suspension lifted TJ unlimited with 33, now 31 with 3.73. I have no i tention of going bigger than 33" maybe 34 once I have replaced the tj diff with the hd drom the yj, also AT. But that is about it.

I went from extrem off road built to expedition oriented travel, and I still can do hard off road if I want to, just not as extrem, but I always find my way.

Anyhow, You TV will be very nice!

WilliamA

Lucky,
I specifically looked for a jeep with 3.73 gears. 4.10 would have been nice but would have required me to step up to the Rubican package for a whopping $12,000 additional bucks. The dana 44 front axle in the Rubi is mechanically identical to the Dana 30 save the larger diameter center section. I couldn't justify the added cost. I can get Eaton E-lockers for both ends for about $2,000. That's the real upgrade in the Rubican package. The Rubican Recon edition vented hood is nice, but again it's $1,000 bucks plus paint. Even purchasing the E-lockers and hood for my Sport is $9,000 or so less than the Rubican.
As to tire sizing, my target was to get an overall axle ratio of about 3.50. If I take the original tire diameter (31 inch) and multiply it by my gear ratio (3.73), then divide by my target tire size (33.4 inch or 295/70/17), that puts me at a 3.46 effective ratio. That should give me good highway performance without the trannie constantly shifting. Using this formula, if I stepped up to 35 inch tires I'd need the 4.10 gears. I don't mind swapping gears but really don't want the extra inertia and hence, weight of the big tires. As you said, We pull trailers. Everything needs to balance against the need for good highway manners first. The compromise needs to weigh towards that over manly big tires. Plus, 295/70 is the biggest tire I can reasonably source without going to an LT truck tire, which I want to avoid.

WilliamA

jeepin15bill

Nice looking jeep. Your upgrades are nice additions. Just remember with larger tires come additional weight that must be turned. The lower gearing helps with that. The e-locker is a great addition. When installing the e-locker lower gears can be added at the same time if you feel you need it.

LuckyJ

Lol, looks like we are starting a Jeep sub forum in a TD forum.

@WilliamA great, you know exactly where you are and where you want to be with that jeep!

Just remember, that getting the same final ratio, does not means the the result will be the same, since final vehicule hiegth, witdh of the tires and so, modifiy the aerodynamic and wind resistance. So sometimes, when going bigger, reving a little more might be better, but since you are not going realy bigger, you should be find. Anyway, you know what to look for.

Don't forget the pics of the up-grades.

jeepin15bill

LuckyJ, There is a lot of Tag owners that are Jeep Owners, me included. You are right, William will know the right feel when he drives it.

WilliamA

Hey all,
The end of March is true to form, Mother Nature is chuckling with glee over the 5 inches of new snow and 30 mph north wind today. No matter. She's going to have to capitulate sooner rather than later and give us some un-frozen ground eventually. I actually blame myself for the winter blast as I last week retired my arctic jacket and deployed my spring ensemble. Should have seen that coming.....
Anyway, I finally got around to getting a stronger rear bumper for the Jeep and it has a number of bells and whistles that engender a better towing experience. I was completely unimpressed with the stock bumper for my Jeep for a number of reasons. First, it was quite large and wide and got in the way of tight, backing turns with the trailer. I peeled it off and threw it in the weeds to await recycling. Second, it's all plastic with the exception of the small steel mounting brackets so it was pretty much worthless anyway and didn't have any strength to add for towing. Third it was way too low and forced the trailer hitch to be even lower, causing problems with hitch height and interference with the landing leg crank against the spare tire mount at any angle more than straight.
I picked up this steel bumper from Extreme Terrain out of Pa and got it bolted up yesterday. There was a bit of fiddling to get things just right but I had planned carefully and it went on without a hitch (WAAAAAHHHHH! Without a hitch...Get It? That's funny! I crack me up!)

Here's the new piece. It's a Barricade HD something or other and sells for $299 bucks. As you can see, it's got a built-in hitch and is a few inches higher and further back than the stocker. That puts the ball further back and makes things much better in the hitch, unhitch department. The stock hitch just bolted to the crossmember and this bumper bolts to the frame horns on both sides, crossmember, came with crossmember stiffeners and is 3/16 steel plate. The curious thing is that it is NOT tow rated for trailers! After much research and physical examination of the bumper/hitch, I've decided that the "not tow rating" is strictly to appease the wandering crowds of lawyers (think "soccer-hooligans, but better dressed) salivating on their Brooks Brothers togs over the very thought of yet another frivolous lawsuit frenzy. The recovery D-ring mounting points on this bumper are rated for 9,500 lb pull EACH! The hitch point is gusseted and looks much beefier than the D-ring mounts.
This thing is stronger and more rigid in every way than the stock weenie bolt-on Lego hitch that came with my Jeep. I'm actually quite surprised Jeep can get away with rating the stocker at 3,500 lb capacity. After looking at it since removal, I'd be suspicious of hanging a bike-rack off of it. Not surprisingly, the new bumper doesn't come with a provision for adding safety chains or mounting the wiring harness connector. I simply drilled the bottom edge of the bumper for a couple of bolt-on chain links and then pop-riveted on the 7-way plug mount. I'm getting used to drilling sheet metal and light stuff so drilling those two holes was, by comparison, like drilling a grader blade. I used up 2 good (translate "good" as cheap, but sharp) 1/2" bits getting the holes in it after switching from my weenie battery drill to a heavy Milwaukee 1/2" electric drill.
I still need to do a zip-tie attack underneath to tidy things up but sadly am out of the much needed zip-tie array. Back to town at some point for more stuff.
I'm very happy with this setup and feel about 10 times more safe for trailer work now. Can't wait to get out and hook up.

WilliamA

WilliamA

@LuckyJ said:
Lol, looks like we are starting a Jeep sub forum in a TD forum.

@WilliamA great, you know exactly where you are and where you want to be with that jeep!

Just remember, that getting the same final ratio, does not means the the result will be the same, since final vehicule hiegth, witdh of the tires and so, modifiy the aerodynamic and wind resistance. So sometimes, when going bigger, reving a little more might be better, but since you are not going realy bigger, you should be find. Anyway, you know what to look for.

Don't forget the pics of the up-grades.

Lucky,
Yeah, I forgot to post pics of my new tires! I did go a bit bigger and finally got around to picking a set! I mulled over a tire upgrade and finally ended up with the ones I had originally picked. I got the Cooper AT3's in LT grade with size LT 285/75/17. It's pretty much the biggest tire that will fit with the stock rims without rubbing inside the fenderwell. I've got around 500 miles or so on them and am pleased so far. Snow and ice performance is good as can be expected. We just received another 10" of wet, heavy snow so "testing" hasn't been a problem! They ride much harsher than the mini-van maypop's it came with but are a much stiffer 3 ply sidewall and sidewall rock-guards. They are nearly 34" (33.82 inch) diameter but squat down to about 33 1/2" at 32 psi. I'm thinking of going down to 30 psi once it warms up a bit. (-4 here this morning. At that temperature, 30 psi cold will drop static tire pressure low enough to trigger the TPMS warning light and shut off the TCS computer.) Summer temps will allow me to run them down to 28 psi cold static pressure. Highway pressures should go up to 35 psi. I have been getting a 4-5 psi rise between cold pressure and highway pressure. Not bad. My BF Goodrich M/T's used to have a 10 psi rise between cold and highway temps. These Coopers are rated for 80 psi max so I'm not worried about pressure but don't want them to ride like a buckboard at highway speeds.

I have lost between .5-.75 mpg if my calculations are correct. That's probably more to do with the tire weight than the additional diameter. I'm looking forward to getting up into the woods with the trailer and see how they do in sand and rocks with the trailer on. The Goodyears were pretty close to useless off the road pulling my TAG.

WilliamA

LuckyJ

Looks better!

Hope you reach your expectation!