2014 [email protected] Air Conditioner and Condensation/Dehumidification

HellFishHellFish Member Posts: 75

Since new, my [email protected] has cooled but the air inside the cabin was damp (air felt cold and clammy) and there was no drainage from drip pan. Much discussion with other folks on the owners' forum...at the time the lack of condensate draining out the hose was a common mystery.

Recently, after three days camping in 95 to 97 degree heat with 80 % plus humidity and NOT ONE DROP of water draining out of the drain hose, I'd had enough. I pulled the AC out. Turns out that the AC was causing condensation (OF COURSE IT WAS!) which then filled the plastic bottom panel of the AC unit. To drain out of the AC bottom (and into the [email protected]'s metal drip pan) the water had to rise to a level above a lip on the one factory drain hole on the bottom left of the AC (as you look at it). It never did. As a result, the water got high enough that the bottom of the fan in the AC unit was actually splashing in water. Some of this water evaporated and made the cool air flowing into the [email protected] damp.

So, I VERY CAREFULLY drilled a couple of 1/2 inch diameter holes in the bottom of the AC's plastic pan on the right side of the bottom and used a hook blade exacto to remove the lip the drill bit made on the top side of the new drain hole (no impedement to drainage). Of course I had to make sure the new drain holes were over the [email protected]'s metal drip pan. Now the condensation runs right out of the AC unit and into the [email protected]'s metal drip pan and out the drain hose.

I ran the system for 5 hours with the AC temp selector set on "6", the fan on high cool, all windows closed, aux fans running (you know, that little brown switch under the stereo), trailer just slightly higher in front. In the shade (my garage) with the outside air temp at 92 degrees and the relative humidity at 76% the temp inside the [email protected] was 70 degrees and the RH was 58%. Before my "mod" the AC was actually increasing the humidity inside the [email protected] Over the course of the five hours I ran the AC I measured 1 cup of water draining out the drain hose per hour.

So...it only took me three years to fix this problem...but I did it. Take that, AC!

Maybe you are dealing with the same issue...this info might help.

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Comments

  • Michigan_MikeMichigan_Mike Administrator Posts: 486

    Good tips and points well made. I have talked to others who changed out AC units in the trailers and gone to a remote controlled AC unit and they did exactly what you did, in drilling a few holes in the bottom of the drip pan of their new unit. These are great tips and hopefully will help others out down the road.

    Michigan Mike
    Linden, Mi
    2019 [email protected] 400

  • almondealmonde Member Posts: 15

    This is awesome, would love to get rid of that cold clammy feel when the A/C is running. Is the mod obvious when you start to open things up? Not overly keen on going in there blind

  • AspenAspen Member Posts: 45

    I, too, am curious how much of a project this is... and if it's simple enough to be an easy quick fix. I have quite a bit of water draining out from underneath my [email protected], but the humidity is still reading 99% inside unless the controller is on the coldest setting (#7) and then it gets down to maybe 82% and a chilly 59 degrees. The cold wet feeling just isn't pleasant, and I'm so confused how it could still be so humid yet so much water is draining outside. ( A/C fan switch is on and roof vent/window slightly cracked)

  • MccrusnMccrusn Member Posts: 26
    edited July 2018

    HellFish, after reading your fix... I'm inclined to agree with your conclusions. I have taken the a/c out and drilled a couple of additional holes in the bottom of the a/c... directly under the fan blades... in a rectangle square formed there. For those wanting to know how to get the a/c out: there are two screws underneath the cabinet, that screw into the sheet metal of the a/c, holding it down. Then there are two screws on the front trim piece holding the a/c back in the cabinet. Now the a/c unit will slide right out, with about 36" of cord. Looking at the way the a/c drains into the pan of the [email protected] itself... I also decided to put a spacer underneath the left side of that pan... to encourage the water to go out and down the tube out of the [email protected] on to the ground underneath.

  • willbingham1willbingham1 Member Posts: 63

    I was just wondering concerning this fix for the drain of air conditioner if a 2017 [email protected] would be included in this fix. I have been in one setting where I ran air in trailer but it got cool enough outside that air conditioner was not running much. But I did notice that it got stuffy inside, and there were not drips from drain tube, and did not have my humidity meter running to see if there was an issue. So again, had they done a remedy for the [email protected] by the 2017 model run (by the way a late November 2017 produced model)? Getting ready for big out West 3 week tour. Bill

  • mikewingo1955mikewingo1955 Member Posts: 25

    Thanks for the info folks. I'm going to try this fix this weekend.

  • Michigan_MikeMichigan_Mike Administrator Posts: 486
    edited August 2018

    Here is an addition to the above information that will make your AC unit perform better and cool more efficiently. Be sure to reference the photos in the midway point of the discussion as Shawn experimented with his mod and it lowered the temperature as it cooled the interior of his [email protected] unit. His mod separates the warm air from the intake air, allowing the unit to cool more efficiently.

    Check it out!

    Michigan Mike
    Linden, Mi
    2019 [email protected] 400

  • albutzeralbutzer Member Posts: 11

    Hello Blog, I need clarification. I too am sick of waking up cold and damp. I removed the air conditioner to add drain holes but now I am confused. The drain hole is to the back right. Drilling holes in the pan will allow water to run down the in side of the air duct. Did you add more drain tubes? See picture. Thanks!!

  • albutzeralbutzer Member Posts: 11

    OK, I was being dumb. Went back and read the original post.
    The drain holes are in the bottom of the actual AC unit. The factory did put one in.
    I can tell it is working by the rust around the hole. I added three more holes and one to what looks like the low point on the AC drain pan. I measured and made sure this last hole would still hit the TAG drain pan. I also added two shims to the front of the pan to force the water toward the drain hole on the far back right. Anyone modify this pan? Thanks for the tips - any more modifications to the AC please let me know. Testing.

  • albutzeralbutzer Member Posts: 11

    @albutzer said:
    OK, I was being dumb. Went back and read the original post.
    The drain holes are in the bottom of the actual AC unit. The factory did put one in.
    I can tell it is working by the rust around the hole. I added three more holes and one to what looks like the low point on the AC drain pan. I measured and made sure this last hole would still hit the TAG drain pan. I also added two shims to the front of the pan to force the water toward the drain hole on the far back right. Anyone modify this pan? Thanks for the tips - any more modifications to the AC please let me know. Testing.

    After removing the AC unit I have much more confidence no one will suffocate in one of these pods, plenty of venting :)

  • albutzeralbutzer Member Posts: 11

    @albutzer said:

    @albutzer said:
    OK, I was being dumb. Went back and read the original post.
    The drain holes are in the bottom of the actual AC unit. The factory did put one in.
    I can tell it is working by the rust around the hole. I added three more holes and one to what looks like the low point on the AC drain pan. I measured and made sure this last hole would still hit the TAG drain pan. I also added two shims to the front of the pan to force the water toward the drain hole on the far back right. Anyone modify this pan? Thanks for the tips - any more modifications to the AC please let me know. Testing.

    After removing the AC unit I have much more confidence no one will suffocate in one of these pods, plenty of venting :)

    Update, I just tested the fix, Humidity went from 66% down to 51% then proceeded to climb steadily to 77% - the AC is actually humidifying the cabin. I give up. I love my pod but hate the AC>

    Peace

  • LuckyJLuckyJ Member Posts: 894
    edited September 2018

    I have just come back from a center florida trip. Was park in the orlando area. Humidity was about 92% at night. When running our ac, we could see a steady flow of dripping water under the trailer at the water drain port. But we still had to run it with roof vent open, cause humidity to form as droplet near the stargazing window and roof vent trim. With that said, and vent open, we did not see anymore droplet forming.

    Trailer is a 2017 [email protected] outback

  • AspenAspen Member Posts: 45

    I have tried multiple combinations of windows and vent open, partially open, closed, fantastic fan on and off, etc. to prevent the humidity from building up. So far the best scenario in my [email protected] in humid weather is the trailer elevated at the jack, the ceiling vent open a couple inches, windows just slightly cracked, and the A/C fan in the OFF position. .... not sure why, but as soon as I switch the A/C fan ON, the humidity increases rapidly. Water will still continue to drain at a rapid rate from the port under the trailer, so I know it's working. It may still get to 70% inside the cabin, but much better than the 90%+ I get with it sealed up and a/c fan on.

  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 328
    edited September 2018


    Hi folks, I am new to this side of the forum. @Michigan_Mike pointed out a neat trick created by a former TaB owner. **Edit: (I now realize that the TaG A/C must exhaust under the trailer, so not sure that this is helpful.). **Seems there was too much mixing of the exhausted, hot air with the intake fresh air from the A/C rear vents. He has a simple solution that makes a difference. Just get some cheap plastic register deflectors with magnets and non-stainless washers. Glue the washers to the outside A/C vent frame and stick the magnetic deflectors on the outside vent area. It will help to allow only fresh air to be dragged into the AC and allow it to run more efficiently. We used this system during the hot, humid uCamp and more recently in 99% humidity in a valley in Southern Ohio. Try it, it really does work! Just remember to remove them with travel.

    Sharon | Westlake, Ohio | 2017 TaB CSS

  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 328

    Although it does not appear that the TaG has keder rails, using a 90% shade cloth tarp or any canopy directly over your TaGs will go a long way in keeping the entire TaG cooler allowing the A/C to work more efficiently. We made a tarp and used it just to shade the driver side of our TaB and it made a big difference in that the A/C vent was then shaded.

    Sharon | Westlake, Ohio | 2017 TaB CSS

  • Michigan_MikeMichigan_Mike Administrator Posts: 486

    @LuckyJ said:
    I have just come back from a center florida trip. Was park in the orlando area. Humidity was about 92% at night. When running our ac, we could see a steady flow of dripping water under the trailer at the water drain port. But we still had to run it with roof vent open, cause humidity to form as droplet near the stargazing window and roof vent trim. With that said, and vent open, we did not see anymore droplet forming.

    Trailer is a 2017 [email protected] outback

    I would suggest using a small/portable 12 volt fan (along with the fantastic vent) or something along these lines to move air in the cabin area at night while sleeping to minimize condensation. Air movement is critical as peopld exhale a lot of warm air and this plays into the condensation buildup in the trailer too. Moving air inside will help eliminate the problem.

    Michigan Mike
    Linden, Mi
    2019 [email protected] 400

  • larry64801larry64801 Member Posts: 12

    I have the same trouble this last weekend. It was the first time using the a/c, and the humidity went up high than when it was turned on. No condensation ever came out the discharged tube. After returning home I removed the a/c and drilled five holes in the fan slinger sump. After testing for over an hour, water did come out of the discharged tube. Humidity is better but not great. Humidity went down to 54% and then went up to and settled out at 68%. The temperature was good but humidity was high. If you down load and review the instruction manual, page 5 tells us "the unit is design to evaporate condensation under normal conditions", when the compressor cycles off the cooling fan is evaporating the condensation and sending it back inside the teardrop. I'm not sure we will ever completely solve our problem unless we can keep that drip pan drain completely.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.danby.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/DAC050BACWDB_DAC050BAUWDB_EFOM_20161114.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjb7Yn4gMziAhUEUKwKHbCdAxcQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2nFJS-2GR7OVa_YdcbebVX

  • albutzeralbutzer Member Posts: 11

    I have had the camper for a few years now. I love most things about the camper but I am very disappointed in the A/C. Have any of you replaced the unit with a different brand? For my next camper I will check out other brands due to the A/C issue alone. Another great thing about the camper is my ability to keep it in the garage, adding an A/C unit to the top of the camper is not an option. Keep the possible solutions coming. B)

  • larry64801larry64801 Member Posts: 12

    albutzer,
    After pondering the problem some more, I going to remove the a/c unit again and seal up every hole in the bottom the unit and reduce the drip pan capacity and seal off the drip pan so the intake air is not evaporating the drip pan water and putting that damp air back into the teardrop. Part of the problem I have is the drain outlet in the NuCamp furnish drip pan is raised. The condensate water level has to get about 3/16" high before it can drain out. Does anyone have a good idea how to rework the drain outlet so its flush with the bottom?

  • larry64801larry64801 Member Posts: 12

    albutzer,
    Like the other's above have stated, we need to make sure we are not mixing intake air and exhaust air (in the enclosure cabinet) and not let any water stand in the pan. :) I plan on using pipe insulation (close cell foam) and aluminum tape.

  • WilliamAWilliamA Member Posts: 1,174

    @larry64801 said:
    albutzer,
    After pondering the problem some more, I going to remove the a/c unit again and seal up every hole in the bottom the unit and reduce the drip pan capacity and seal off the drip pan so the intake air is not evaporating the drip pan water and putting that damp air back into the teardrop. Part of the problem I have is the drain outlet in the NuCamp furnish drip pan is raised. The condensate water level has to get about 3/16" high before it can drain out. Does anyone have a good idea how to rework the drain outlet so its flush with the bottom?

    Remove the A/C unit, unscrew the drip pan and shim it up 1/4" at the front. Should work. To test the function before all the work, just crank the tongue Jack up and let-er buck...
    Boy...You guys are grinding the sausage pretty fine on this a/c stuff. I'm sweatin' just thinkin' about it... =)

    WilliamA

    "When I am in charge, Starburst brand fruit chews will get their own food group....and where are all the freakin laser beams? There should be more laser beams..."

    2018 Jeep Rubicon
    2017 [email protected] XL
    Boyceville, Wi.

  • willbingham1willbingham1 Member Posts: 63

    I am in the process of trying to get AC unit to drain better and lower humidity. After pulling unit I see multiple issues that have affected the less than desirable operation of AC. There are 3 fans when you turn on fan switch below radio. Two pull air IN from cowbells to around upper back of cabinet and AC. Another larger fan exhausts air in a plenium behind AC which is for the hot exhaust air from AC. The round white side vents on cabinet in cabin along with Cowbells intake air is drawn into AC sides to blown over it's coils to the back of AC and then down the foam board plenium out the bottom RV vent. The drain is in rear right corner of pan in RV under AC. It's drain is on back right side as you face AC. But another drain pan with only 1 drain hole in middle is on the bottom of AC. So water can accumulate in both AC AND RV drain pan. You can see the issues, I am sure.

    I have drilled very carefully 3 more drain holes on AC unit in an area on it's pan this is a depressed area where condensation can accumulate. Carefully to keep these holes over RV drain pan. Drill holes very carefully on AC pan to not penetrate inside mechanicals.

    Also there was aluminium duct tape around back of AC to force it's exhaust air into plenium and out of RV. I will make every effort to replace so exhaust air from AC does not mix with AC intake air from cowbells and interior vents on cabinet. I am sure raising front of RV above level will help in normal draining of RV but not AC unless extra drain holes are added. I will post pictures of all so you can see what might be ahead of you if you try to improve this issue. Bill

  • willbingham1willbingham1 Member Posts: 63

    As I mentioned above I would give folks a tour of what is involved as far as the AC on my 2017 Tag Max 5 wide.  Here are some pics of the dismantled air unit and the cowbell fans, rear duct for AC exhaust, etc.  I ended up drilling 3 holes in lowest depression of drip fan to try to get condensate to drip better into RV dip pan under AC to keep inside cabin humidity down a bit.  I ran replaced unit on high in my basement for 1 1/2 hours and it dropped humidity in cabin from 65% to 55% in the end.  It did not drain until AFTER I turned unit off and let sit for an hour.  Inside cabin temp was 65 degrees when I turned it off.  I had trailer tilted front up about 1/2 bubble off of level.  Best test will come when next camping trip during Ham Field Day on June 23-24.  We will see if any difference for all my trouble.  Two pics of small fans are the Cowbell intake fans, just so you could see what they look like.  I made sure to use more aluminum duct tape to seal rear AC duct to bottom of RV by retaping the outside of duct and then after AC is back in place sealed tape to AC sides and top to make a seal for exhaust air.

  • willbingham1willbingham1 Member Posts: 63

    Here are the pics for above. Notice right back corner drain hole for RV pan.  I did shim up the front of pan about 1/4 inch to try to drain things rearward.  Also on AC unit bottom in front of the three holes is the OEM one drain hole.  I added the three in the depression--carefully!  I removed my "Mandy Closet" bottom above AC to be able to reach the taping job around AC when back in place.  I did pre-tape the sides and top on the outside of AC exhaust box leaving enough overlap to tape AC to box when in place.  You can reach around unit just enough to seal tape to AC.  We will see in future how this all works out to reduce humidity in trailer.  Wish all luck on this adventure.  Bill

  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 328
    edited June 2019

    I posted this under the thread “A/C setting for TaGs” but the second part of my post addresses the humidity issue.

    While here in Sugarcreek at uCamp 2019, I spoke with Austin (Repair department) regarding the TaG ac air flow design. He reported that all TaGs should have the accessory fans arranged to draw air into the cowbells and interior ac vents, and to exhaust air through the plenum out the bottom of the trailer. He recalls that consideration for the reverse of this air flow pattern (air intake from under the TaG and exhaust via the cowbells) may result in entrainment of excess debris into the ac - especially in dusty areas. During the TaG Question and Answer session today, this topic was addressed and both Marvin (Quality Control) and Creed (Technical Support) concurred.

    I spoke with a TaG owner with a career in HVAC. He indicated that the humidity control issue was due to the oversized ac unit reaching the set temperature before effective dehumidification has occurred. He recommended venting as discussed above to force the ac to run longer and allow it to dehumidify.

    I hope this helps. I know I have some new things to try with our TaB ac this summer!

    Sharon | Westlake, Ohio | 2017 TaB CSS

  • LuckyJLuckyJ Member Posts: 894

    @Sharon_is_Sam, so the dust thing is what I tought in relation to a vehicule snorkle about the dust. Still fo against natural air flow of hot air, but well.

    As far as the humidity, this kind of bring the idea the maybe using the AC at less then max strenght would better, leting the AC do a better job. Would this make sence?

  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 328

    @LuckyJ, anything you can do to make the ac run longer, will dehumidify better. I also think using a fan inside the cabin to move the air may at least make you feel cooler.

    Sharon | Westlake, Ohio | 2017 TaB CSS

  • SomemedicSomemedic Member Posts: 78

    maybe there's a secret combination on how to open the vent above you, turning the air conditioner on low, or something like that.

    I have a military 6 by 6, M35 A2, and when you drive it in hot weather you don't roll the door windows down, you roll them up and tilt the front windshield out. The floor which is normally hot it's cool to the touch and it's pretty bearable inside the cab. It goes against everything you would have thought but it works.

    Just now I opened up the vent on top and turn the fan on while the air conditioner was running and the auxiliary fans were on. Free thermometer inside shot up five degrees in a very short time. That tells me that the cowbell fans weren't pulling enough air through the plenum. The fantastic fan created a negative pressure situation and started pulling the AC exhaust back into the cabin through the auxiliary ports. That would absolutely heat up the cabin pulling in warm moist air.

  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 328

    Try just cracking the vent - don’t turn on the fan.

    Sharon | Westlake, Ohio | 2017 TaB CSS

  • willbingham1willbingham1 Member Posts: 63

    Well, here is my follow up to my drillings holes in the bottom of the air-conditioned evaporation drip pan along with tilting 1/4 inch the catch pan and drain on the TAG.  I camped in this recent super hot weekend with high humidity and these are my results.  First with it being 94 degrees outside and high humidity, the air-conditioned drained a steady drip of condensation under the trailer.  Inside the temperature was in the mid to high 70's.  Humidity was in the 50's but I even saw as low during the heat of the day 45%.  At night when it cooled off some, particularly early morning at sunrise when air-conditioner cycled on and off the humidity inside climbed to mid-70's at early morning.  As I read on this forum from an expert on air-conditioning the unit needs to run constantly to dehumidify.  When cycling on and off early morning less humidity is drawn out of the cabin.  My settings of the air on low cool was at about 6 and 1/4 on the temp scale.  It got very cool in the cabin but at least it was not so humid as I had experience before in humid camping location.  Out West it never was an issue if I used the air, like late August in Apache Junction, AZ, where is was 104 degrees and little humidity.  So my summary is that drilling the holes to better drain the AC unit and tilting the drain pan on the TAG were helpful, but not a complete magic bullet.  The design is an issue in humid areas.  By the way I also tried to run a little venting through the vent fan and all that did was draw humidity into the cabin.  I watch the humidity climb steadily.  Thus not helpful at all.  So, just turn on the circulating fans and run the AC above the 6 and 1/4 setting and hope the best concerning cabin humidity.  I had my trailer level, also.  Bill 

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