Measuring Tongue Weight at home

Chaverim

I decided to look in to the tongue weights to try to ensure that I am not overloaded. I put a bathroom scale on the ground and put a little wood on it to make it the level height of the ball and lowered the tongue jack until I got a reading. My scale said 200lbs so I removed the 5lb LP tank I have in there. It removed 25lbs from the reading on the scale. How do I ensure I’m looking at the weight correctly so I can leave LP in the camper while I go camping? What should the readout be on the bathroom scale in that layout? I see all different ways of measuring tongue weight, but I thought that the weight should be closer to 150 especially as I removed the LP tank and most people have a battery and a 10lb tank.

LuckyJ

Rupe of thumb that you will find most places is 10% of trailer weight at the coupler.

About the scale, if you trailer as the coupler at the same height that you TV ball sits at, you are good. As for the propane tank, I am a little surpised that a 5lbs bottle will weight 25 pounds. And most people still use the 20 obs canister like tha ones that are found on house bbq.

Now, you can simply remove tongue weight, but you can also balance weight inside the trailer to acheive the same result by moving bags, add water in the tank, things like that. So moving 10 lbs from the front of trailer To the back of the trailer, result in a 20lbs less on the tongue (that is just a basic rules that change according to the fact that you would relocate that weight at the same distance of the axle from front to back. But at the same time, be carfull not to simply overload the TD using that principle.

Play with that with the scale under the TD coupler.

Chaverim

Most things I read say to counter the scale about 2-3 feet to the side of the tongue so I’m not sure what that does to the weight as if I put the scale directly below the tongue. Also. I have the trailer loaded with just sheets pillow and some general stuff under bed like toolset and umbrella. I don’t have much ability to move stuff to the back of the camper to offset tongue weight.

LuckyJ

@Chaverim said:
Most things I read say to counter the scale about 2-3 feet to the side of the tongue so I’m not sure what that does to the weight as if I put the scale directly below the tongue. Also. I have the trailer loaded with just sheets pillow and some general stuff under bed like toolset and umbrella. I don’t have much ability to move stuff to the back of the camper to offset tongue weight.

I do not get what you mean by "counter the scale 2-3 feet to the side of the tongue".

And as for weight distribution, I am sure you are bringing some clothes with you on trips. Like I have said, you also must have a water tank. Just transfert some of your stuff from the TV to the TD or ah some water to the water tank.

But you firt must be able to weight your tongue at the coupler. This is where your weight is .... At the TV hitch, unless you are using an extended hitch bat on your TV.

Chaverim

If you google how to measure tongue weight they say put a bar between a brick and a scale with the scale 2-3 feet to the side of the tongue coupler and then put wood on the bar and weigh the tongue.

LuckyJ

@Chaverim ok, I got ya.

This is only used for heavy trailer that would be heavier than the 300 obs that most house scale have as a capacity.

Here is the link for both methodes and you will see that for lighter trailer, they go direct. But I would make sure that the ground is even under and to use a small sheet of thick plywood on the scale, since the top is mostly thin sheet metal that as a tendency to bent and afect the mesured weight.

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-determine-trailer-tongue-weight.aspx

Chaverim

Ok so this time I took out the propane (as I’m going to convert to 1lb tank as I never go on more than 3 day trips) and put the scale at the top of the stack rather than the bottom and I got 165 lbs. well within desireable range. Now just to make sure the car doesn’t need new coil over springs.

WilliamA

I really don't think 150 lb tongue weight is reasonable for a T@G. I have spent many hours moving things around and weighing my trailer with mediocre results. The thing that bugs me is the point of weighing an empty trailer in the first place? What's the point of that? I am surely not going to use it that way and am not going to remove the battery, propane tank, water and cargo every time I move it! That's not a reasonable expectation. Different configurations of the trailer from the factory make tongue weight significantly different. The base package has no A/C or microwave, which ADDS tongue weight by removing significant weight from behind the axle. None of the variations are mentioned in factory literature. The axle placement under the trailer is rear-biased, so it's difficult to understand how one could get even an empty, unladen trailer down to 100 lbs of tongue weight. I stripped everything off the front of my trailer including the boondock rack, battery, propane bottle and spare tire (it sits significantly forward) and the lightest tongue weight I could achieve without water in the tank was 130lbs. I ditched the 20lb propane tank (46 lbs full) in favor of a 5lb (20lb lighter) cylinder, got rid of the boondock rack (28 lbs) and replaced it with a 22 lb aluminum box, run the stock group 24 battery and carry only about 15 lbs of junk (folding chairs, extension cords, etc) in my tongue box and ended up with 160 lbs or so of tongue weight. I then added my generator to bring my total tongue weight up to around 200 lbs with a full water tank. I don't think its possible to get much below that without moving the axle forward. That's the reality to me. Lots of folks then add a couple of fork-lift batteries (don't get me started....) which can easily push my figures up by another 100 lbs or more.

Tongue weight should be taken directly beneath the hitch. Stick a stick into the ball socket and the other end on a scale. That's how much your tow vehicle feels.

WilliamA

Chaverim

Correct on all accounts. I am trying to get the tongue lighter, but with my camper the way i’ll Travel, the only thing missing is the 2 gal of gas i put in the galley, which won’t lighten the tongue very much. I want so badly to put the generator on the tongue, but can’t justify the weight when it already weights so much just with the battery and i still have to put in a propane tank once I get the 1lb refillable one in the mail.

I can’t understand how the tongue weight is so heavy on it’s own, and nobody has gotten NuCamp to move things around. I can’t even put my clothes in the camper as it won’t get far enough back to change anything in a positive direction. My car’s hitch and ball can take 300lbs, but that’s too much for the T@G to have on the tongue anyway, plus I still think i need stronger shocks if that’s how I’m going to travel. At least i never have anything in the back seat other than my two 25lb dogs.

LuckyJ

I am puzzeled.

I have never put tye tongue of my T@G on a scale, but I am sure I have no were near 300 lbs of wieght on it and it is all loaded, but I do not have a geny. And you would be surprised as how moving the bags from the TV to the back wall of the TD can afect load. If not as much on the tongue, that is weight that you will not have on the TV rear axle and suspension.

I guess I will have to test my tongue weight, but I have to remember that My spare is no longer in under the front of the TD, but os now just behind the axle.

Chaverim

I think stock weight with LP and battery for the tongue is higher than the 14% recommended.

LuckyJ

I do not think that this was mentionned, but that 14% is a target, but also as a minimum, so that stability is preserved from unbalance created by a tongue weight that is to light. But of course, going to heavy also have it's draw back.

Chaverim

Oh. I thought 9% was minimum and 14% was maximum. I have an Audi version of a Prius but it feels like I’m just driving not towing anything so I never worried about weight until I wanted to put the generator on the tongue. Which I found out I shouldn’t do.

LuckyJ

Ok, I have just seen a pictures in my head about a prius and a generator! Sorry, I just had to share this.

But about tye prius, I did not think they had towing capability.

Chaverim

LuckyJ

Not the prius I remeber.

LuckyJ

Not the prius I remeber.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images/prius-being-charged-up-by-a-portable-gas-generator/82709533/

Chaverim

It’s the Audi version. Lol. It’s a plug in electric with only 15 miles full electric range and 1.4L turbo charged gas motor. 10gal gas tank and the electric drive motor is located within the transmission.

HellFish

I have thought about adding the boondock type front rack with a place for the genie, but I am already at about 160 # tongue weight (2015 T@G) and worry that adding more weight up front will get me in trouble. Anyone here care to share their tongue weight with this type rack and a genie on it?

WilliamA

@HellFish said:
I have thought about adding the boondock type front rack with a place for the genie, but I am already at about 160 # tongue weight (2015 T@G) and worry that adding more weight up front will get me in trouble. Anyone here care to share their tongue weight with this type rack and a genie on it?

Everyone had better make some popcorn and snacks for this one:
I just re-measured my own tongue weight for about the 87th time and discovered some things. First, I measured my tongue weight in the yard on a bathroom scale. The ground is wonky and rough, so I first laid down a piece of plywood to set the scale on so it doesn't sit weird and mess up the reading. Next, I got a short 10" piece of 2x4 and laid it on the scale to distribute the weight a bit from side to side. Last, I got a piece of 2x6 and put it upright between the 2x4 and the very front section of my tongue about where the ball sits.
I cranked the jack down until the scale started to measure weight, then cranked it until the landing leg was off the ground so the full weight of the tongue was on the scale. Mine checks in at 240 lbs. Far from the Unicorn-like, mystical 140 that's often been bantied about, it's a beefy chunk.

But there's more...

As many of you know, I cut the ball hitch off my trailer and replaced it with a lunette-style hitch. The weight of the lunette (hitch ring) alone is 22 lbs. The weight of the lunette mount that I welded to the tongue is 12 lbs. That's a whopping 34 lbs! Now when I weigh my tongue weight, I deduct 30 lbs because of the cast steel lunette hitch. Why? Well, it certainly adds the full amount to the tongue weight carried by my Jeep, but it doesn't significantly reflect the amount of weight that is carried by the trailer frame. 95% of the hitch weight is carried directly by my Jeep. If I added 34 lbs to the storage box on the front of the trailer, that would certainly add that much load on the frame. Since my Jeep carries most of the load of the new lunette and mount, it's not a significant factor in trailer frame carried weight. It's all on the Jeep. So 240 minus 30 lbs takes me down to 210 lbs of tongue weight that must be carried by the trailer frame.

When measuring tongue weight, here's another anomaly that must be carefully considered: The trailer must be very close to level. I use a 4 foot level held under the side of the trailer side to get things within a quarter bubble or so of level. Why? I first got a short piece of 2x6 and stuffed it under the trailer and then cranked the tongue down onto it. I didn't measure the wood, but the tongue was down about 6 inches from level. That's to say, nose down. With that piece of wood, the tongue weight went up by almost 30 lbs. That's weight transfer. All of the weight of the trailer carried directly above the axle will shift forward as the tongue goes down. Likewise, it will shift rearward as the tongue goes up. I have a significant amount of junk on my roofrack and it's not very heavy, but the higher on the trailer the weight is carried, the more it shifts off the axle centerline as the trailer tongue is raised and lowered. So without removing anything, I could get my tongue weight to shift by almost 30 lbs just by cranking the tongue up and down through level. It's not as much of a problem if the trailer is a bit heavy, but it tongue weight is close to minimum, shifting weight toward the rear (by going up a steep hill) will make the trailer bias toward the rear, possibly making things very unstable. This has been mentioned by others who have noticed their trailer start to act weird as the tongue rises at speed due to wind pressure on the frontal area. Well, that's the reason. As the tongue rises, weight is transferred rearward and depending upon how much stuff you have high up, it can be quite dramatic. Keep in mind, also, that no matter how much the tongue weight is with the trailer level, the tow vehicle's hitch must be able to handle more than that because of the vagaries of weight transfer as hills are challenged and conquered. There will be as much as 50 lbs moving back and forth along the line of the hitch just by raising and lowering the tongue. That weight must be accounted for when determining maximum tongue weight on the tow vehicle's hitch assembly. Not just the static weight, but all of it....

Back to the original question: My tongue weight (static). 210 lbs sounds like a lot over factory spec, but as I've said before (and here) that 140 lbs tongue weight is pretty much a pipe dream for a functionally loaded trailer with battery, propane tank, spare tire and etc onboard. My generator weighs 44 lbs and if I peeled it off the front, my tongue weight would go down to a calculated (minus the weight of my iron hitch) weight of 166 or so. I have a 5 lb propane bottle so my tongue weight will be, all other things equal, 20 lbs or so less than a stock trailer. After my afternoon date with the scale, I'm more motivated to move my spare tire mount and tire behind the axle as I discussed elsewhere and that will shave another 30 lbs of tongue weight off. Even if I don't do that, I'm in the ballpark of where I think it's safe to be for me.

WilliamA

Chaverim

Something else to consider is the tongue weight as it relates to the tow vehicle. Many tow hitches cap around 250-300 lbs. especially the ones on smaller passenger cars and tiny SUVs

LuckyJ

@WilliamA ok, this was long, but well worth it.

I think it is a good rsume of all the info that was mentionned in many different post!

As for weight shifting by movement and jerk, I think that the hitch and car manufacturer allow for a fudge factor that cover any regular variation, created by day to day use.

Good job.

owned_by_a_shihtzu

So based on this measuring/testing, you definitely would not stick with a tow vehicle that's only supposed to have 150lb tongue weight?

LuckyJ

@owned_by_a_shihtzu said:
So based on this measuring/testing, you definitely would not stick with a tow vehicle that's only supposed to have 150lb tongue weight?

Perso, definetly. I would play around towing capacity, but not the tong weight and hitch capacity. If you lose your hitch, you loose the hole trailer, simce the chains are also attached to the hitch.

As for the load capacity of TV, a driver can compensate by preventive driving. But I am not saying that this is a smarth thing to do, plus all the liability that many have mentionned before.

owned_by_a_shihtzu

So what about this, the owner's manual states the 150lb tongue weight and I believe that's based on using the honda brand hitch. I was told that the hitches that Uhaul installs are better and that's what I had installed. The lowest tongue weight of either the Uhaul hitch or ball receiver is rated at 350 pounds. So would you still go by the 150lbs listed in the owner's manual? The 1,500 lb towing capacity is of course fine.

LuckyJ

The thing about tongue and hitch capacity as stated in the TV owners manual is that we never know what it is based on.

Is it the hicth capacity, the mou ting location of that same hitch, the frame of unit body construction on the TV,mthe transmission, engine, suspension of any other drive train capacity (including braking and wheel bearings) of the said TV.

This is where you have to draw the line. So everything above the Tv towing capacity become a risk for you, the others inside the Tv and all of the others surronding you on the roads.

I know my jeeps, been maintaining and wheeling them as long as I have owned them, same for my Nissan X-trail and I know my driving habit and how I can moderate my driving according to trafic and road condition, including wet, ICE and snow. I can draw the line for my self, but I will not draw it for any body else. Since that also included liability.

I am in the process on long time planning to replace one of my two TV. The Nissan. But the problem I have, is that I do not want to purchase new, I want to pay less them 20 000$ US, I want awd (selectable and manual if possible) with acceptable towing capacity in the small SUV range ( this would be my daily driver). Problem is that nothing has the capacity in the brands I am looking for. And with all those CVT transmission, I will not risk that line. So I might just go with a non TV vehicule as my daily, for all the above mentionned reason. And BTW, I am not a diciple of the 2x the TV capacity but that is me. No need for it, and I aslo think about envirronment and global warming.

So my answer is simply that you would take a risk with something that you do not know the provenance of the limitation. (Remember the liability thing??)

I would not do it.

owned_by_a_shihtzu

Well that is the conclusion I came too also even though I love the CRVs and planned on keeping mine for quite a while longer as it only had 127k miles. But over the weekend I researched SUVs with brands I liked and that I could get reasonable miles on and yes also under $20k and ran across a deal on a Honda Pilot that the dealer had just reduced the price on. So I ended up with a 2014 Honda Pilot AWD which is a mid size even though it's just a little longer than the CRV, it has a V6 that's not a CVT. I thought about too having one better MPG car for everyday and an older car for a TV but just don't want to keep up with 2 vehicles and I don't have a large driveway to begin with.

Jms

Congrats on your new Pilot! We have a 2015 LX 4WD (we also got used) and love it. Pleanty of room and a good TV. Also a very safe vehicle. Ours saved us from any injuries in Aug 2017 when an older lady pulled right out in front of us while we were going down the highway on the Navajo reservation in Arizona. We T boned her vehicle at highway speed, totaling her 2017 Ford sedan. The Pilot only suffered minor damage on the front end, and our air bags didn’t even deploy. We limped 70 miles back to Williams with lots of duct tape holding the headlights and grill together. The Pilot gets decent gas milage too, being primarily FWD and by shutting down 3 cylinders at highway speed. We get about 23 mpg without the T@G, and around 20 mpg with it so far (nothing too mountainous yet). Hope you have a long and happy relationship with yours!

willbingham1

Just a thought to add to the discussion when measuring I try to measure as the camper will be towed with any load and also at the same height of my hitch location so I can get a accurate measurement at MY HITCH. As some have spoken, the location of your load in the trailer is critical. I have also added a bike rack to my tongue on the trailer and even though it was 25 pounds it only added 20 pds to the tongue weight measured at my tow hitch height. So I try to measure with the scale at the ball mount on the tongue not at the tongue crank foot, again so I can get a good measurement at what my tow hitch will actually "see" on my TV. Just some thoughts on this "monumental" discussion. Appreciate all you folks are sharing on the physics of towing a trailer. My tow vehicle is now a Ford Edge 2.0T and does a wonderful job with my TAG. About 28 miles per gallon without camper and 19 miles per gallon with camper.
Bill

Misterbee

Thanks for this fascinating discussion, I am really learning a lot. I am looking at buying a T@G, but my hitch is only rated for 200 lbs. of tongue weight. What do you folks think?

LuckyJ

@Misterbee said:
Thanks for this fascinating discussion, I am really learning a lot. I am looking at buying a T@G, but my hitch is only rated for 200 lbs. of tongue weight. What do you folks think?

I you only think of hitch capacity and togue weight, you can do it. But you have to be aware of what you store in front of the axle. If you goal is the have a generator on the togue, a bike rack and 2 bikes, a spare tire on the front A Frame, dual 6 volts golf cart batteries, etc, I do not think that you can do it.

But you are asking a question to people who do not know what your intentions are.

And remember that their is more to towing than just tongue weight.